Anyone out there running a comptech supercharger with a high perf. clutch and rearend? I'm looking to beef up my drivetrain before adding the sc and want some advice on clutches and rearends. Any suggestions?

Thanks for the help!

 

I've been running the Comptech supercharger for over a year. In that time I've participated in autox and 10 or so track days. Probably 300+ clutch dumps/launches, etc.

Why in the world would you need to upgrade the clutch (which is good for more than 350hp easy)? The rear end should be fine if you don't abuse the car. Who is telling you that you need to replace perfectly good parts on your car? If you don't drive stupid, the car can handle the modest power increase.

 

From what I understand the Honda clutch is built (designed) to slip under stress to save stress on the rearend. After talking to people with the comptech, I've found that clutch slippage causes a great loss in power, so I would like to build up my drivetrain to put as much power to the ground as possible. Yeah it may work stock but there is a lot of power loss due to clutch slippage. And I've heard that the stock rearend will break if you upgrade clutches and add a sc.

Thanks for your input, but I do have one question...what is the comptech hp rating at the clutch/flywheel? I've seen numbers as high as 295 to the ground with the comptech sc...that should be the numbers substantially higher at the clutch/flywheel...I'm thinking like 380 or so. Let me know if you have any idea. Thanks

 

I have the vortech SC kit and the first thing it says on the first page in BIG letters IS GET A NEW CLUTCH... so dont listen to dumbass with the comptech get a new clutch and the rearend is a very weak point of S2000s maybe one of the few but there are things u can do look into spoons rear end parts but Im not sure how good they are for SCs but check it out

 

Well unless you feel like dismounting the tranny and taking a flywheel measurement, there really isn't any way to know. However, I can tell you with first hand knowledge that the stock clutch will put the power down.

I have no idea who told you that they were losing power from 'clutch slippage' but maybe they never tracked down the real issue behind their miseries. I was putting over 300whp to the ground with a stock clutch the last time I dyno'd so whatever... Maybe they mistook detonation in their dyno plot for slippage, or maybe their car wasn't sufficiently tied down, or maybe they are just shoveling BS into your ear because of an innate need to justify blowing $500+ on a mod with no verifiable benefits. Maybe they performed ZERO actual testing and just want to sound smart.

You are correct in the observation that upgrading the clutch or pressure plate increases the likely hood of a differential failure. In fact, the only differential failures to my knowledge have all been on S2000's equipped with aftermarket drivetrain modifications. That is a pretty significant statistic if you think about it for a moment. Did I mention that those failures include all of the non-forced induction differential failures I have knowledge of?

Then again, I'm not providing analysis here, just relating a common factor I've observed out of 20+ guys that have blown diffs.

Knowing what I know, I see no reason why I need an aftermarket clutch ESPECIALLY because there is no verifiable benefit and only risks in performing a modification to the drivetrain.

 

The Spoon Part you are referring to is a repackaged KAAZ differential. You can save yourself a few hundred bucks and just buy one direct from the real manufacturer. Same for the Mugen part too, its also manufactured by KAAZ. The KAAZ differential is still using the same case as the stock piece and does not provide any verifiable addition of strength. It also has a much more aggressive engagement and will lock with less input than the stock piece. My understanding is that these values are adjustable. Basically, the KAAZ will perform the same task as the stock Torsen, but it will execute that task a little differently. However its not bullet-proof in any way shape or form, it will break just like the stock piece.

As for being a dumbass... well you are entitled to your opinions but you still haven't shared with us how reached your conclusion. I'm not even going to comment on the Installation Manual for the Vortech kit. I simply hope you received a later revision than the ones they provided in 2002.

 

I've heard a few complaints from other S2KI members about their clutch slipping at 7500RPM and above. If you're planning on swapping the clutch/flywheel, I suggest you do it or have it done before you install the supercharger. Otherwise, you will have to remove the supercharger (or parts of it) to tilt the engine for the tranny work. Good luck!

 

[QUOTE=jerrypeterson]The Spoon Part you are referring to is a repackaged KAAZ differential. You can save yourself a few hundred bucks and just buy one direct from the real manufacturer. Same for the Mugen part too, its also manufactured by KAAZ. The KAAZ differential is still using the same case as the stock piece and does not provide any verifiable addition of strength. It also has a much more aggressive engagement and will lock with less input than the stock piece. My understanding is that these values are adjustable. Basically, the KAAZ will perform the same task as the stock Torsen, but it will execute that task a little differently. However its not bullet-proof in any way shape or form, it will break just like the stock piece.

Hey man...It sounds like you really know your ****. I'm going to take serious consideration to your comments. I appreciate the feedback

 

all I gotta say is u are smoking crack if u think the stock clutch will hold up u said u launched 100 times well love to know what u launch at and how much power u are putting down and Id love to race u too

 

I wasnt talking bout the LSD I was talking bout the other rear end parts they make

 

If I'm smoking crack than I've got a lot of company on this acid trip.

All the same, here's what you are asking for:

Launch depends upon conditions and which tires I have on the car. But for the most part 5500rpm will spin on anything while using unshaven R-Compounds and sub 80 degree weather. This is about a 1000rpm less than without the supercharger.

Pre-supercharger launches are abundant on S2000 **** volume1. You can clearly view my tach in most scenes, so check it out... a link to the ordering page is in my signature. Unfortunately the two released volumes were before I installed the supercharger so you might have to weight a few more months for the third installment.

The most common place that I launch the car is at one of two autox courses in the Seattle area. One is a Boeing parking lot (asphalt) the other is an airstrip in Bremerton (concrete). Mostly I've been driving on Toyo RA1's, the OEM S02's, and Khumo V700s. The Toyo's have had the most grip but the Khumo's were pretty damn worn out and quite frankly have become hard from frequent heat cycling.

so assuming (A)sphalt or (C)oncrete...
Using S02's A-4500 C-5000
Using RA1's A-5500 C-5500
Using Khumo's A-5000 C-5000

If the tires are at operating temperature, add another 500-1000 rpm to the launch requirements.

I should have a dyno sheet or two posted here http://www.s2ki.com/forums/sho...83896. Its a thread detailing testing Jim and I performed with the Proflow S2000 Throttle body on my SC'd S2000.

If you want to "race" come out to a http://www.speedventures.com event! The group is a lot of fun and rental timing equipment is readily available. I try to make the events at ThunderHill whenever possible even though its a 900mile drive for Seattle residents.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TurboRBoostedS2G &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wasnt talking bout the LSD I was talking bout the other rear end parts they make </TD></TR></TABLE>

I must be way behind the times... What other rear end parts to they package and resell with their sticker on it that would have any effect on differential, CV, axle, or housing longevity?

 

Anyone I'd know? I'm curious if could you post a thread? I tried a search but received way too many results.

Amen on getting to the clutch... that is work I would consider letting somebody else do just because its a b****!

 

The stock clutch calculates to a maximum torque capacity of 270 ft lbs at the flywheel as the clutch is slipping (more for breakaway torque) which is pretty healthy. The real problem we have found with the clutch is that it is so small (212mm) that it gets hot too quickly and the heat really affects torque capacity. Once it cools off again, it will hold good torque again. Our ACT street setup will hold about 380 ft lbs without any sacrifice in engagement quality or clutch life. Although the extra clamp load is really meant to increase torque capacity, it also helps to compensate for the lack of heat capacity of the limited clutch size as well. Usually it is not the torque load that breaks things, it is the shock load. Certainly our clutch doesn't increase shock load, unless you drive in a manner that shocks the parts. It really cannot damage parts by itself. It takes stupid driving to do that. If you sidestep the clutch at 8000 rpm, our clutch will transfer more power and therefore break parts faster. If you drive nomal, then the clutch will only increase the load on the parts to the degree that you increase the power, as long as it holds the power. Other clutches with more aggressive friction materials may affect shock load, but our street setup won't. It is really a simple question of whether the stock clutch is enough for the power level you are desiring to hold.

 

Having driven on the ACT street setup that you are recommending, I have the following observations.

First: The "street disc" is a bone stock S2000 clutch. This left us in utter amazement as to why there was a price premium for your product. Has this part changed in the last year?

Second: If there is no change in engagement with the upgraded pressure plate, why does it take twice as much force to push in the clutch pedal?

Third: the larger springs appear to make less "decel buzz". Must be the change in springs or possibly the state of component wear. Neato.

 

w/ the Vortech they probably tell you to change the clutch ( I dont remember what the manual says) but you can get away with using the oem clutch, the oem clutch stays fine, its the differential thats more prone to wear out/break..had a friend blow his oem differential after having his Vortech S/C for roughly a few weeks with no "banzai" clutch drops done on it either...

 

does the s2000 have turbo's???

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2jz-gte &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">does the s2000 have turbo's???</TD></TR></TABLE>

If you are asking does it come from the factory with a turbo...no

If you are asking if there is one available...yes
Checkout ultimate racing for a turbo setup and there are a few others that escape me right now.

 

How much horsepower you guys think the s2000 can fit in its engine?

 

on stock internals...around 320 at the flywheel..Spugen is introducing their turbo kit

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ToMMyF20C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much horsepower you guys think the s2000 can fit in its engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've heard of people putting 400+ to the ground but that is with engine rebuild and supercharger or turbo

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ToMMyF20C &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How much horsepower you guys think the s2000 can fit in its engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

as much as you want...

why do I smell a couple trolls?

 

Let me respond to your observations in order:

1. At this point the ACT street disc is bone stock. We don't do anything to hide this and actually tell everyone in our literature. Shop by price. It is an expensive disc to us and we give enough profit margin to keep our distributors happy. We don't aim to sell retail competitively. The only added benefit of our disc is that we certify them to SFI spec. 1.1 making them legal to drag race in the faster classes (11.99 or quicker) and we package them pretty. We just started producing a performance organic that will sell at about the same price and have improved steel-backed performance linings.

2. The engagement should still be smooth but the pedal will be stiffer. Twice as much force is an overstatement. The results we get shows a 44% increase in release bearing load. This is potentially the same as the pedal load increase. I haven't had complaints about the pedal being too stiff. We gain an increase in clamp load through an increase in diaphragm spring load. We can redesign the clutch to have less pedal load by using a weaker spring and changing the geometry in the pressure plate. The tradeoff is clutch life and travel to disengage.

3. We haven't changed the springs in the disc. The new performance organic will have a different center so I don't know how the well the new design will do in regards to decel buzz. The results we have so far are inconclusive since the customer was also using an aluminum flywheel which can contribute to this condition.

 

Any information on performance pistons for the honda s2000?

 

"Any information on performance pistons for the honda s2000?"

might want to start a new thread to ask this question. but to answer your question - no, there isn't. but it really depends on what you are building and what is being done to it. don't think that by throwing in new pistons will have mass improvements, but it will only yield improvements on a particular car with a particular application built for that purpose: i.e. - custom turbo setup with 8:1 compression pistons.

hope this helps.