https://honda-tech.com/zeropost?cmd=newtopic&id=19

 

That makes absolutely no sense and is a waste of time.

The ITR will NEVER be in DSP and rightfully so.

If you find yourself uncompetitive in CSP, move to STX, SM or even DS if you need to.

Auto-x is not like World Challenge or Nascar, where every car has a chance at winning (due to various allowances).

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">https://honda-tech.com/zeropost?cmd=newtopic&id=19</TD></TR></TABLE>

me no want to post a new thread.

 

BTW correct link is:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=497633

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That makes absolutely no sense and is a waste of time.

The ITR will NEVER be in DSP and rightfully so.

If you find yourself uncompetitive in CSP, move to STX, SM or even DS if you need to.

Auto-x is not like World Challenge or Nascar, where every car has a chance at winning (due to various allowances).</TD></TR></TABLE>

yep. I do have to agree with this though. Some of the elitist ITR owners need to get in on this thread. the ITR can NOT BE BEAT BY ANYTHING!! let alone little CRXes! hehe

seriously though, an ITR in DSP is like a ITR in H-Stock.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dawhiteboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

yep. I do have to agree with this though. Some of the elitist ITR owners need to get in on this thread. the ITR can NOT BE BEAT BY ANYTHING!! let alone little CRXes! hehe

seriously though, an ITR in DSP is like a ITR in H-Stock. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Following your logic one could say the following:

The ITR in D-Stock is like an ITR in H-Stock. The DS competition moves to DSP not CSP.

Seriously there is a reason you don't see ITRs in national level CSP results, they can't compete. I am not even sure how competitive they would be in DSP.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That makes absolutely no sense and is a waste of time.

The ITR will NEVER be in DSP and rightfully so.

If you find yourself uncompetitive in CSP, move to STX, SM or even DS if you need to.

Auto-x is not like World Challenge or Nascar, where every car has a chance at winning (due to various allowances).</TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't find myself uncompetitive in CSP on a National Level, although I would. Instead I find myself very competitive in D-Stock.

Just operating with an eye towards the future.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Seriously there is a reason you don't see ITRs in national level CSP results, they can't compete. I am not even sure how competitive they would be in DSP.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Right.

So someone who wants to compete does not race an ITR in SP.

The rules should never be made so that every car has a chance of winning.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Following your logic one could say the following:

The ITR in D-Stock is like an ITR in H-Stock. The DS competition moves to DSP not CSP.

Seriously there is a reason you don't see ITRs in national level CSP results, they can't compete. I am not even sure how competitive they would be in DSP.</TD></TR></TABLE>I never said all of DS was properly classed but my pretty close to stock GS-R never got less than 1st place in DSP against more heavily modified cars so I'm guessing an ITR with a decent driver would own DSP so badly it would be a waste of time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Right.

So someone who wants to compete does not race an ITR in SP.

The rules should never be made so that every car has a chance of winning.</TD></TR></TABLE>

True, but the whole spirit of classing is place drivers (not cars) on fair and equitable footing.

You have yet to make an intellignet or fact based argument as to why the ITR should be classified in CSP. Please feel free to do so at any time.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">True, but the whole spirit of classing is place drivers (not cars) on fair and equitable footing.</TD></TR></TABLE>

No, it's not.

There will always be a "car to beat" in every class. If you do not drive that car, pray that no one that has one will show up, if one does show up, pray that person cannot drive well. That is just how autocross is.

A Honda Prelude gets owned by the ITR in DS. Does that warrant a move? No. Drive an ITR or 330 if you want to be competitive.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You have yet to make an intellignet or fact based argument as to why the ITR should be classified in CSP. Please feel free to do so at any time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't need to make an argument.

The car is already in CSP. It will stay there, despite your efforts.

I recommend you try racing in STX.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

True, but the whole spirit of classing is place drivers (not cars) on fair and equitable footing.

You have yet to make an intellignet or fact based argument as to why the ITR should be classified in CSP. Please feel free to do so at any time. </TD></TR></TABLE>

it is? I thought it was to place cars close to each other so that an equal driver wouldn't absolutely murder every other car in the class if that driver were to drive all said cars.

It shouldn't be classified in DSP, that's the issue you are trying to make right? I've seen ITRs win CSP, not beyond local level though (but then autox is such a boring sport imo I couldn't see driving more than 2 hours or so for a big event... )

If you REALLY think it should be classed in DSP.. well.. any decent driver with an ITR would seriously own every DSP car I've run against since I am within 1-6 seconds of my car with a stock ITR (depending on the course).

 

Sorry man, you evidently are a God of a driver or you need to come out of your Auto X shell.
There are some very good drivers of DSP GSRs on this board, with cars prepped to the limit. They are far from being overdogs on a national level.

Check out the DSP nats results from last year.

D Street Prepared Drivers: 30 Trophies: 9
1T 127 Steve Hoelscher 80 Fiat X 1/9 Blue Hoosier TnnV 49.955 49.195 51.803(1) 98.334
[27] New Market, AL Hoosier/Aamco/Mid-Atlantic SEDIV 49.442 49.139 49.517
2T 197 Arie Villasol 72 Ford Komush Capri Hoosier SanF 49.918 49.294 53.713(2) 98.537
[97] Modesto, CA Acts 20:24/Komush Eng NORPAC 49.243 49.830 49.255 (0.203)
3T 119 David Fauth 95 BMW 325is Black Hoosier Colo 51.094(1) 49.057 50.937(1) 98.544
[19] Centennial, CO BimmerHaus Performance RMDIV 51.633(1) 51.218(1) 49.487 (0.007)
4T 99 Karter Bollmann 85 BMW 325 e White Hoosier Hous 56.378(3) 52.108(1) 50.002 98.890
[199 Texas City, TX Pull My Finger SWDIV 49.848 51.225(1) 48.888 (0.346)
5T 179 Ben Martinez 84 Toyota Supra Lt Bl Hoosier SanF 51.782(1) 49.963 49.735 99.021
[79] Santa Clara, CA D Lew Motorsport NORPAC 49.919 49.590 49.286 (0.131)
6T 143 Thomas M. Bleh 87 BMW 325 is Black Hoosier ODom 51.046 50.130 50.354 99.323
[43] Virginia Beach, VA Sports&Imports/BAP-Geon SEDIV 49.252 49.193 49.715 (0.302)
7T 6 Ron Katona 98 BMW 323is Silver Hoosier WDC 51.225 50.656 50.475 99.808
[106 Laurel, MD UUC/Keeping Room/Alien Racing NEDIV 50.335 50.043 49.333 (0.485)
8T 106 James Sheridan 98 BMW 323is Silver Hoosier WDC 50.842 50.158 50.837 99.816
[6] Bowie, MD UUC/Keeping Room/Alien Racing NEDIV 50.730 49.658 50.941(1) (0.008)
9T 41 David Larose 87 BMW 325 is Black Hoosier Northw 51.405 51.049 50.334 99.950
Vaudreuil, QU Lombardi/Yokohama NORPAC 50.866 49.800 49.616 (0.134)
10 198 Brian P. Flanagan 87 BMW 325 is Yellow Hoosier Chat 56.823(3) 50.370 50.295 100.117
[98] Signal Mtn, TN Fastech/Sahara Perf/Hoser Racing SEDIV 49.822 49.826 50.141 (0.167)
11 31 Mike Neary 97 Acura Integra GS-R Hoosier WDC 50.914 52.308(1) 51.380(1) 100.536
Millersville, MD Koni /GTR Motorsorts NEDIV 49.826 49.894 49.622 (0.419)
12 138 Phil Kogan 88 BMW 325 is White Hoosier NEng 54.320(1) 51.157 50.559 101.018
[38] E. Douglas, MA KRS,NER,Team Kogan NEDIV 51.135 51.192 50.459 (0.482)
13 19 Mike Becker 95 BMW 325is Black Hoosier Colora 52.222 50.663 52.627(1) 101.037
[119 Aurora, CO Bimmerhaus Performance/Hoosier RMDIV 51.047 50.922 50.374 (0.019)
14 79 Donald Lew 84 Toyota Supra Blue Hoosier SanF 51.278 50.049 50.406 101.068
[179 Fremont, CA Dandos/Rebello/KubbyKreations NORPAC 51.019 51.129 51.553 (0.031)
15 90 Geoffrey Craig 80 Fiat X 1/9 Orange Hoosier Susq 52.441 50.981 50.646 101.285
Elizabethtown, PA NEDIV 50.639 50.758 50.977 (0.217)

 

Being that the SCCA won't reclass the car, why worry about it?

As said in the other thread, they'll simply tell you that you need practice.

What's so bad about competing in STX?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Sorry man, you evidently are a God of a driver or you need to come out of your Auto X shell.
There are some very good drivers of DSP GSRs on this board, with cars prepped to the limit. They are far from being overdogs on a national level.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

if you read my next post you'd see that I have 0 desire to go to a nationally "run to 50 seconds yay!" yawn-filled event. sorry.

My experience is all local and maybe local guys suck cause I know I'm not that good but still own DSP everytime. I would have been 2nd in EP with the GS-R if it wasn't for the last cone on the course (that was a "state championship" scca event). so maybe local people do suck, maybe we aren't as serious.

Although I was within 1 second of a very highly ranked CSP miata too (6th nationally I think, 2001 maybe? whatever).

Either way, there will always be the "fast cars" and the "others" in EVERY class. You picked the car, so live with it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dawhiteboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

if you read my next post you'd see that I have 0 desire to go to a nationally "run to 50 seconds yay!" yawn-filled event. sorry.

My experience is all local and maybe local guys suck cause I know I'm not that good but still own DSP everytime. I would have been 2nd in EP with the GS-R if it wasn't for the last cone on the course (that was a "state championship" scca event). so maybe local people do suck, maybe we aren't as serious.

Although I was within 1 second of a very highly ranked CSP miata too (6th nationally I think, 2001 maybe? whatever).

Either way, there will always be the "fast cars" and the "others" in EVERY class. You picked the car, so live with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Despite your distate for Auto X you seem very passionate about defending your prowess at it.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Despite your distate for Auto X you seem very passionate about defending your prowess at it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Why do I sense that you are taking offense to replies made in this thread?

Your attitude seems very "American". You want to run in a class where you are not competitive. What's your solution? Bitch and moan about how you are not competitive.

Isn't it far easier to simply abide by the current rules (as so many others do) and run in a class where you are more competitive?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Despite your distate for Auto X you seem very passionate about defending your prowess at it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

only when I **** with ITR owners. If I like it so much why haven't I gone to a single event in close to a year? even though they occur every two weeks at worse?

I do think it's fun to mess with ITR owners that autox simply because so many of them think they should be winning because they have an ITR.. which really has nothing to do with it.

Oh and I haven't autox'd my car in well over a year. Last time I went to an event I drove a HT members ITR. It was nice to use a different vehicle, I admit. I'd keep going if I could keep finding new vehicles to drive, the learning of the car is about the only fun aspect to me.

edit: oh and I put the CSP Miata part in because the other thread was bitching about Miatas and CRXs so I figured it'd get you even more defensive.. it worked

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Reid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Being that the SCCA won't reclass the car, why worry about it?

As said in the other thread, they'll simply tell you that you need practice.

What's so bad about competing in STX?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Seriously I am not even sure if I will ever run a SP/STX class. My goal this year is top 3 at nationals in DS (hopefully win), and put a cage in the car over the winter. It is more a matter of principle.

The SP classing is the one thing that has kept me from modifying my car to date. STX was new last year and is still a sup class. Plus I love to throw money out the window as I race running the hoosiers.

Take a look at David Fauth. Great driver, multi-time national champ in an ITR. Has an ITR parked in his garage. Currently running a DSP BMW.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Take a look at David Fauth. Great driver, multi-time national champ in an ITR. Has an ITR parked in his garage. Currently running a DSP BMW. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Do you KNOW him? If not why assume a reason for him doing that. I don't know him but in his case I would keep running the ITR in a stock class while I'm building a good SP or whatever car. That makes more sense than building the car between seasons/years. If I wanted a national trophy I would buy the car to beat/the fast car for a class. I wouldn't attempt to reclass the car I already owned.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has an ITR parked in his garage. Currently running a DSP BMW. </TD></TR></TABLE>

About midway through last season I stopped autocrossing my ITR in DS and instead used a 330Ci the rest of the season and continued to win the class.

Does that say anything about either car? No, I just wanted a change of pace.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dawhiteboy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Do you KNOW him? If not why assume a reason for him doing that. I don't know him but in his case I would keep running the ITR in a stock class while I'm building a good SP or whatever car. That makes more sense than building the car between seasons/years. If I wanted a national trophy I would buy the car to beat/the fast car for a class. I wouldn't attempt to reclass the car I already owned.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This ends now.

EDITED


Modified by shamun at 11:06 PM 5/6/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This ends now.

Should our paths ever cross, whether it be on the track or boardroom, actions will speak.</TD></TR></TABLE>

lol is that a threat or a promise?

if you plan to prove a point to the SEB but you can't even make a case here... well I think it'll fail.

at least try to counter my questions/arguement with an intelligent response.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shamun &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This ends now.

Should our paths ever cross, whether it be on the track or boardroom, actions will speak.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well, you just ruined your credibility with me right there, as someone who has sat and watched this thread go on.

You have taken Reid's and Dave's opinions personally for no reason. I don't see you arguing with the RR/Autox guys in that thread. Why? Only because they may say things a little less abrasively?

Dave and Reid ARE right, and they are essentially saying the same thing everyone else is saying, maybe without the sugar coating and wild explanations full of $10 and $15 dollar words.

You asked for opinions, help, criticism to either a) help strengthen your letter or b) shoot it down entirely. What do you expect?

It isn't personal, they are stating their opinions. Take the good with my bad, and saying that actions will speak IN PERSON based on an internet discussion (i'd call it a argument/discussion, but as well all know, not all arguments are intented to be personal) is just (excuse my lack of taste and tact) about as ******* stupid as it gets. (and NO i'm not calling you ******* stupid, i dont even know you. I'm calling your statement ******* stupid, big difference)

The classifications will never be perfect.
How about another angle? why dont' you just move all the CRX's somewhere else to accomodate the ITR? Because then all the CRX drivers would be SOL and bitching about how they are getting owned in B.

This is why i dont engage in 'discussions' with my girlfriend where we have wildly different opinions. she thinks it is an argument and that my differing opinion shows that i find her stupid and her opinions stupid. Arguing/disussing is HEALTHY and shouldnt be taken personally 99.5% of the time!!!@!#!@#!@!!!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Chris N &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The classifications will never be perfect.
How about another angle? why dont' you just move all the CRX's somewhere else to accomodate the ITR? Because then all the CRX drivers would be SOL and bitching about how they are getting owned in B. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly.

What really kills his position for me (and the SEB I'm sure) is that NO ONE has really TRIED to do a national level CSP ITR. Until that happens it shouldn't even be considered.