EP3 Oversteer.
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From: SLC
EP3 Oversteer.
on hard corners, the EP3 tends to oversteer. I've swung the entire back end out many times. How should the EP chassis be driven to correct for this? Can modifications to the suspension help with this in any way?
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From: atlanta, ga, USA
the ep3 willingly oversteers if you set the car fot the turn properly, or use techniques like lift-throttle.
But i'd hardly say that the chassis is too tail happy to the point that it requires correction.
Sounds to me like you're coming into turns too hot, letting off the throttle/braking, which causes the back end to come around. Modify your entry speed/braking points and you'll be able to manage the back end a little better.
But i'd hardly say that the chassis is too tail happy to the point that it requires correction.
Sounds to me like you're coming into turns too hot, letting off the throttle/braking, which causes the back end to come around. Modify your entry speed/braking points and you'll be able to manage the back end a little better.
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From: Cranfield, UK
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I am jealous.
I have TypeS front and rear bars, and I still can't get it to oversteer as much as I want.</TD></TR></TABLE>
just wondering, what is the diameter of the Si (SiR for canadians) front sway bar?
I have TypeS front and rear bars, and I still can't get it to oversteer as much as I want.</TD></TR></TABLE>
just wondering, what is the diameter of the Si (SiR for canadians) front sway bar?
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From: OH
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (George Knighton)
It's those stock tires that are making this happen (or your rear toe is waaay off). Put some decent rubber on the car, get an alignment and you can understeer to your heart's content.
People spend mega $$ on suspension trying to get the EP3 to rotate correctly. Stock form they do not do this.
People spend mega $$ on suspension trying to get the EP3 to rotate correctly. Stock form they do not do this.
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From: your town, IL, USA
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (Todd00)
sorry but its kind of a n00b question...what is oversteer and what is understeer? i kind of have a vauge idea but im not clear on them...please enlighten me
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Re: EP3 Oversteer. (CH-02DC5)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CH-02DC5 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
just wondering, what is the diameter of the Si (SiR for canadians) front sway bar?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it's 25.4mm (1") but I don't know the wall thickness.
just wondering, what is the diameter of the Si (SiR for canadians) front sway bar?</TD></TR></TABLE>
it's 25.4mm (1") but I don't know the wall thickness.
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From: Yokohama, Japan
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Type S bars, front and rear.
Ground Controls, heavy springs in the back.
Azenis, 215-45-16 on 16x7 wheels.
Still not enough to make it rotate!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Have you ever tried running 205/50/15s in the rear?
Ground Controls, heavy springs in the back.
Azenis, 215-45-16 on 16x7 wheels.
Still not enough to make it rotate!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Have you ever tried running 205/50/15s in the rear?
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From: Cranfield, UK
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by George Knighton »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Type S bars, front and rear.
Ground Controls, heavy springs in the back.
Azenis, 215-45-16 on 16x7 wheels.
Still not enough to make it rotate!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe try the dc5R/ep3R 22mm rear sway
what K springs are you running front and rear?
Type S bars, front and rear.
Ground Controls, heavy springs in the back.
Azenis, 215-45-16 on 16x7 wheels.
Still not enough to make it rotate!</TD></TR></TABLE>
Maybe try the dc5R/ep3R 22mm rear sway
what K springs are you running front and rear?
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From: atlanta, ga, USA
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (George Knighton)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Originally Posted by George Knighton
Type S bars, front and rear.
Ground Controls, heavy springs in the back.
Azenis, 215-45-16 on 16x7 wheels.
Still not enough to make it rotate!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what camber & toe settings are you at?
how are the GC's setup? same drop all around?
Type S bars, front and rear.
Ground Controls, heavy springs in the back.
Azenis, 215-45-16 on 16x7 wheels.
Still not enough to make it rotate!
</TD></TR></TABLE>
what camber & toe settings are you at?
how are the GC's setup? same drop all around?
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Joined: May 2003
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From: SLC
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (stephenSI)
yeah, i demonstrated to a friend in a parking lot last night, and he said it was definitely the tires. i ordered some 205-55-15s. hopefully, this will solve the problem.
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From: Northeast, MA, USA
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (George Knighton)
George, have your or Bryan experienced clanking/rattling or any other noise issues with the GroundControls on your car? I am considering some, but with the horror stories on EPhatch.com, I don't know if I should buy them. What is your take on them?
Also, did you have to cut the rear bumpstops?
Also, did you have to cut the rear bumpstops?
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From: On a golf course, VA
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (anjapower)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by anjapower »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">George, have your or Bryan experienced clanking/rattling or any other noise issues with the GroundControls on your car? I am considering some, but with the horror stories on EPhatch.com, I don't know if I should buy them. What is your take on them?
Also, did you have to cut the rear bumpstops? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, they are pretty noisy. It's something that is easily tuned out, though.
Yes, we cut the rear bump stops.
George, everything you mentioned above about the EP is correct. With the set up we use on the EP, there is little to no oversteer. The springs we use are WAY to soft for track use. I only know of one other person that has had their EP on track, and he has had the same problem with the springs being on the soft side. He mentioned that its so bad, his bump stops end up being his spring rate.. LOL..
I will be putting the factory springs back on the EP, but I "think" we will keep the front and rear typeS bars on the car. I'll see how it feels with the factory springs back on, and let you know if there is a difference.
Also, did you have to cut the rear bumpstops? </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yes, they are pretty noisy. It's something that is easily tuned out, though.
Yes, we cut the rear bump stops.
George, everything you mentioned above about the EP is correct. With the set up we use on the EP, there is little to no oversteer. The springs we use are WAY to soft for track use. I only know of one other person that has had their EP on track, and he has had the same problem with the springs being on the soft side. He mentioned that its so bad, his bump stops end up being his spring rate.. LOL..
I will be putting the factory springs back on the EP, but I "think" we will keep the front and rear typeS bars on the car. I'll see how it feels with the factory springs back on, and let you know if there is a difference.
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Re: EP3 Oversteer. (BryanSprinkel)
An article on GRM mentioned revalving/rebuilding stock shocks to a higher bound/rebound at a pretty reasonable price compared to new shocks and the resulting fabrication... anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Re: EP3 Oversteer. (newskoolhatch)
Heres the Quote:
Also note than several companies can successfully convert a street shock to full-race specs, installing the appropriate guts into a street shock shell for production-based race cars.
All of these better race shocks can be rebuilt or revalved at factory-authorized facilities. Depending upon the brand of shock and work performed, rebuilding and revalving can cost $20 to $135.
and the article link: http://www.grassrootsmotorspor....html
Its a damn-good read, as all the tech articles there are.
Also note than several companies can successfully convert a street shock to full-race specs, installing the appropriate guts into a street shock shell for production-based race cars.
All of these better race shocks can be rebuilt or revalved at factory-authorized facilities. Depending upon the brand of shock and work performed, rebuilding and revalving can cost $20 to $135.
and the article link: http://www.grassrootsmotorspor....html
Its a damn-good read, as all the tech articles there are.
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From: On a golf course, VA
Re: EP3 Oversteer. (hatch2k)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by hatch2k »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">An article on GRM mentioned revalving/rebuilding stock shocks to a higher bound/rebound at a pretty reasonable price compared to new shocks and the resulting fabrication... anyone have any thoughts on this?</TD></TR></TABLE>
That's a great idea if you have other means of transportation during the 6-8 week wait for the rebuild.
I used Bilsteins and GC's on my ITR. The shocks were pretty cheap, about $450 shipped. I would suggest them for the EP as well, but I dont have any personal experience with that set up on that car. The way the EP feels with 375 lb springs in the front makes me think in order to track the car it should has no less than 475-575 on the front. I am a fan of using heavier springs in the rear, so I would use 1-200 lb's stiffer in the rear, as well. But, you will need to have shocks that can handle that kind of spring rate.
That's a great idea if you have other means of transportation during the 6-8 week wait for the rebuild.
I used Bilsteins and GC's on my ITR. The shocks were pretty cheap, about $450 shipped. I would suggest them for the EP as well, but I dont have any personal experience with that set up on that car. The way the EP feels with 375 lb springs in the front makes me think in order to track the car it should has no less than 475-575 on the front. I am a fan of using heavier springs in the rear, so I would use 1-200 lb's stiffer in the rear, as well. But, you will need to have shocks that can handle that kind of spring rate.
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Re: EP3 Oversteer. (BryanSprinkel)
I looked a little into it, and the dampers must have a needle or valve for revalving.
Out of curiousity, does anyone know the standard rates for the OEM setup on the EP? I've heard f:248/r:440 but not officially. We're eagerly awaiting Bilstein's application for the EP, maybe late summer, and KYB, too... (:fingers drumming desk
Out of curiousity, does anyone know the standard rates for the OEM setup on the EP? I've heard f:248/r:440 but not officially. We're eagerly awaiting Bilstein's application for the EP, maybe late summer, and KYB, too... (:fingers drumming desk
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Re: EP3 Oversteer. (BryanSprinkel)
Couple questions for you and George:
1. How is the noise "tuned out?"
2. Are you using stock shocks/struts? How are they holding up?
3. The application guide on groundcontrol's website says that the 2002+ Si kit says "with bumpstops." Does this mean they supply bumpstops to replace the factory ones like Eibach does with its prokit/sportline springs?
1. How is the noise "tuned out?"
2. Are you using stock shocks/struts? How are they holding up?
3. The application guide on groundcontrol's website says that the 2002+ Si kit says "with bumpstops." Does this mean they supply bumpstops to replace the factory ones like Eibach does with its prokit/sportline springs?
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Re: EP3 Oversteer. (anjapower)
1. How is the noise "tuned out?"
I dont think it's as bad as you might have heard. Turn the radio on, and just ignore it.
2. Are you using stock shocks/struts? How are they holding up?
Yes, they seem to be holding up fine so far. I will be pulling them off in the next few days, if they're blown, I'll be sure to post it...
The application guide on groundcontrol's website says that the 2002+ Si kit says "with bumpstops." Does this mean they supply bumpstops to replace the factory ones like Eibach does with its prokit/sportline springs?
Yes, they supply bump stops for the front. There are no factory "front" bump stops, so they provide them in the kit. Unfortunately George and I got the kit used and didn't get any front bump stops.. Whoops..
I dont think it's as bad as you might have heard. Turn the radio on, and just ignore it.
2. Are you using stock shocks/struts? How are they holding up?
Yes, they seem to be holding up fine so far. I will be pulling them off in the next few days, if they're blown, I'll be sure to post it...
The application guide on groundcontrol's website says that the 2002+ Si kit says "with bumpstops." Does this mean they supply bumpstops to replace the factory ones like Eibach does with its prokit/sportline springs?
Yes, they supply bump stops for the front. There are no factory "front" bump stops, so they provide them in the kit. Unfortunately George and I got the kit used and didn't get any front bump stops.. Whoops..
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From: OH
Re: (chunky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chunky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would think that an EP3 with a track tuned suspension would have at least -1 camber up front with neutral camber in rear.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Needs more than that up front. I have 1.4 degrees negative up front and it *feels* to me like it needs about 2 degrees to turn better.
Remember that the struts do not gain camber in a turn like double-wishbone does.
Needs more than that up front. I have 1.4 degrees negative up front and it *feels* to me like it needs about 2 degrees to turn better.
Remember that the struts do not gain camber in a turn like double-wishbone does.
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Re: (Todd00)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Todd00 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Needs more than that up front. I have 1.4 degrees negative up front and it *feels* to me like it needs about 2 degrees to turn better.
Remember that the struts do not gain camber in a turn like double-wishbone does.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have no experience yet, so i was just estimating that you'd definitely need SOME neg camber up front on a track tuned suspension.
BTW, how much camber adjustment do those tein camber plates allow?
Needs more than that up front. I have 1.4 degrees negative up front and it *feels* to me like it needs about 2 degrees to turn better.
Remember that the struts do not gain camber in a turn like double-wishbone does.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I have no experience yet, so i was just estimating that you'd definitely need SOME neg camber up front on a track tuned suspension.
BTW, how much camber adjustment do those tein camber plates allow?
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Re: (chunky)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by chunky »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
BTW, how much camber adjustment do those tein camber plates allow?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Plenty, but the tie rods are the limiting factor. That's why I only have 1.4 right now. I'll have more in the future as soon as I modify the rods.
BTW, how much camber adjustment do those tein camber plates allow?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Plenty, but the tie rods are the limiting factor. That's why I only have 1.4 right now. I'll have more in the future as soon as I modify the rods.
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