Some people know this some don't but when bleeding brakes never pump the pedal all the way to the floor. In all the threads about bleeding its strange how rare this was mentioned. Unfortunately the first thread I read about it was right after I bled my brakes (40 or so pumps to the floor). My master cylinder is now shot and currently being replaced, don't let this $200 mistake happen to you.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

wow good info man. is there any explanation for this? thanks for the warning.

 

But I've been pumping it to the floor forever. Now in the last year or so I hear the same warning so I stopped.

I think if the fluid is old & never been changed, there's a lot of crud down in the end of the cylinder where the piston never travels. If it's been done regularly since the car was new, that stuff never has a chance to collect. That's my story & I don't really know for sure if its true...

 

Actually, you don't pump the pedal all the way on an older car. You want to only go about half way. What happens is that when you pump the pedal all the way, you loosen up dirt or debris inside the master cylinder, and that causes the seal to start leaking. Alot of times internally. That's why your master cylinder went bad.

 

Here's how Honda reccomends bleeding the brakes. (From May 98 service news.)

Brake Fluid Bleeding

NOTE: This subject was also covered in the March ’94
issue of S/N.

As you know, most Maintenance schedules recommend
changing the brake fluid every 30,000 miles. But
changing the fluid in the master cylinder reservoir alone
doesn’t satisfy this recommendation; the entire system
must be flushed.

The best way to bleed or flush the brake system is by
using a vacuum bleeder or a pressure bleeder. When
used properly, either one will ensure that the old brake
fluid is thoroughly flushed out.

Before You Bleed

1. Remove the master cylinder reservoir cap and strainer.
Then stir the fluid in the reservoir to get any sediment in
suspension, and remove it with a turkey baster. (If you’re
also replacing the brake pads, push the caliper pistons in
to force more of the old fluid into the reservoir, and
remove that fluid too.)

2. Refill the reservoir with clean brake fluid, and repeat
the stirring and removal process until the reservoir is
as clean as possible.

3. Refill the reservoir one more time, and continue with
vacuum or pressure bleeding.

Vacuum Bleeding

1. Open a full bottle of genuine Honda DOT 3 Brake
Fluid (P/N 08798-9008), and then quickly turn it
upside down into the master cylinder reservoir. (The
reservoir won’t overflow; it’s the same principle as a
bottled water dispenser.) This increases the reservoir
capacity by 12 ounces and minimizes the chance of
bleeding it dry.

2. Use the bleeding sequence from section 19 of the
appropriate S/M, and follow the bleeding instructions
that come with your vacuum bleeder.

Vacuum bleeding is also covered in the Honda Technical
Training Module BK-16, Vacuum Brake Fluid
Replacement.

 

And this from October 01 service news.

Press Brake Pedal Halfway
to Avoid Piston Seal Damage

On all Honda models, if youre manually bleeding
the brakes, make sure whoevers pumping the
brake pedal pushes it only halfway to the floor. If
the pedal is pushed all the way to the floor, you
run the risk of driving the master cylinder
secondary piston into any sediment or deposits
that may have collected on the piston cylinder
walls. If this happens, the piston seals can get
permanently damaged and cause a leak.

 

Yup that was me, just got the car back and feels better than before tho, didn't hurt that I replaced the rotors, calipers and pads either I'm sure.

 

ttt, keep it alive a couple more days, I'm sure it'll save some people some $$$

 

Damn. Thanks for that pointer.

 

pretty interesting point

 

Since we're on the subject of bleeding, what is the correct order to bleed the brakes on your car? ( I got a $10 bet riding on the answer...)


Modified by EKology at 10:16 PM 5/7/2003

 

seems like to me you would want to start at the farthest point from the master cylinder first... my bet is RR, LR, FR, FL. I need to do mine... im into mine since 40K and Im at 70K now... something I would like to learn so I can do it next time I do my brakes

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeSarr_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">seems like to me you would want to start at the farthest point from the master cylinder first... my bet is RR, LR, FR, FL. I need to do mine... im into mine since 40K and Im at 70K now... something I would like to learn so I can do it next time I do my brakes </TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Incredibly good info!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MikeSarr_GSR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">seems like to me you would want to start at the farthest point from the master cylinder first... my bet is RR, LR, FR, FL. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats how I always did mine on my previous cars, but my helms says to start at the drivers side front and work your way around the car counter-clockwise.

 

I learned not to pump to the floor "the hard way"

 

Quote, originally posted by MikeSarr_GSR »
seems like to me you would want to start at the farthest point from the master cylinder first... my bet is RR, LR, FR, FL.

Thats how I always did mine on my previous cars, but my helms says to start at the drivers side front and work your way around the car counter-clockwise.

thanks for the clarification, I actually wasnt sure. only watch it being done once to my car.

 

Without ABS, I always started at the farthest corner, then did the diagonally opposite wheel 'cause it's on the same circuit. So RR - LF - LR - RF. But with ABS the plumbing configuration dictates which wheel is more or less likely to let bubbles into which other wheel, and they're not all the same. So you gotta get the bleeding order for your particular car. Otherwise you probably have to go around a few times to get all the bubbles out. Here's the ones I know about...

'95 GS-R, ABS has its own reservoir & bleed valve
bleed RR - LF - LR - RF - then ABS

'98 Accord, main brakes bleed thru ABS valves
bleed LF - RF - RR - LR

'01 Saab 9³, main brakes bleed thru ABS valves
bleed LF - RR - RF - LR

 

ttt great info

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JimBlake &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Without ABS, I always started at the farthest corner, then did the diagonally opposite wheel 'cause it's on the same circuit. So RR - LF - LR - RF. But with ABS the plumbing configuration dictates which wheel is more or less likely to let bubbles into which other wheel, and they're not all the same. So you gotta get the bleeding order for your particular car. Otherwise you probably have to go around a few times to get all the bubbles out. Here's the ones I know about...

'95 GS-R, ABS has its own reservoir & bleed valve
bleed RR - LF - LR - RF - then ABS

'98 Accord, main brakes bleed thru ABS valves
bleed LF - RF - RR - LR

'01 Saab 9³, main brakes bleed thru ABS valves
bleed LF - RR - RF - LR
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yah ABS messes the order up, the correct way for older cars is RR, LR, RF, LF, you can actually gravity bleed them this way too if u keep the master cylinder topped off.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Stew Pidasso &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I learned not to pump to the floor "the hard way" </TD></TR></TABLE>

it sucks doesn't it? I spent over $300 rebuilding my brakes because of this mistake (2 rebuilt calipers, 1 wheel cylinder, 1 OEM master cyl)

good info, thanks

 

****, I've always pressed it to the floor. I have a reman'd mc that I put in like a year ago, and I think it has a lifetime warrenty...maybe I'll just replace it now since it's free. How can you tell you have a bad mc?

 

Your pedal drops to the floor before getting any braking power at all, due to the seals not working properly and giving a return pressure on the pedal.

 

so you basically have no brakes? haha, good, then my mc is fine.