Hey,
I've been thinking about doing a ZC swap in my '91 CRX Si lately. I'm still trying to get everything on paper and ironed out before i make any final decisions.
Anyway, i was just wanting to hear about some of you guys' first impressions of your CRX's after putting in a ZC motor.
Mine will be a mostly stock motor, with just the bolt ons that i've already got for my D16A6 (DC header, AEM short ram, JG bored T-body, clutch)...
So, basically, what was it like driving it the first time after you put it in... (i.e. were you "blown away" or dissapointed or what?)
I've always been curious, how does it sound? Intake noise, exhaust... is it any different sounding than the Si motor?

Also, has anyone had any issues with nippon-motors.com? Are these internet salvage motors like that pretty reliable?
thanx

 

I wasnt blown away and I wasnt disappointed. The first thing I noticed was the noise of the engine, the ZC is alot louder than the a6 even at idle. And when Im redlining the ZC is so much louder than my a6 was. As I drove down my street for the first time the first thing I noticed was the extra power in the low rpms. Its not that much but it was noticable. I dont remember feeling much on the butt dyno but I can beat cars I couldnt beat before. For example, a friend has a 95 civic ex that I could never pull on with my a6. I'd usually lose by a car and a half or so. WIth the ZC we raced a couple times and I constantly had about a car and a half to two cars on him. That was the first time I actually got to see the difference the ZC made. Also I raced a saturn last night and beat him by 7 cars. I used to only hardly pull on this guy with my a6. BTW Im still using my stock Si exhaust manifold (worst thing u can do.. avoid this if possible) and stock Si exhaust. Only engine mod I have is a short ram intake.

 

when i first drove my rex after dropping in my zc i was like whoa! it was a lil more power than that of the stock motor. but the motor pulls better after 4k. i like the decision of going zc insted of b16!

 

I was happy with the outcome, mainly because i only had the 1.5l HF motor ...
Now the car pulls really nice, i'm happy with the swap and the money i saved from going b-series i'm using to build the motor...

But, because you have an SI the difference might not be that great for you...

 

i didnt notice any big difference until my first race with it. If i still had my Si motor.. i would of been way behind. Remember... ZC motors are old. So it depends if you get a good motor or a decent motor. I guess mine is ok cuz i can finally win races! I smoked Integras, Mustang "base model", Civics and can hang with the Civic SI(b16) slowly pulling on him. and all i have is an intake and exhaust. Still running on stock headers which is bigger than aftermarket headers.. You can put on the SI aftermarket headers but you'll have to port match them. Not matching it will be pointless. So i rather stick with the stock headers.

What have you planned for your setup?
First things first... ECU.. which ECU will you be running? I'm running on an 89 Integra ECU. I Had a JDM DOHC ECU that my friend let me test on my car. No big differnece from the 89 teg ecu. So i guess an 89 ecu will do cuz its much cheaper

Tranny..Si tranny is fine(this is what i have). ZC Tranny with the SI final drive is best.

But if you're going boost.. I heard the DX tranny is good for boosting cuz of longer gearing.


it all depends on the condition of the old ZC motors.

 

Well, if i do the swap, i'm probibly just gonna use my Si ECU at first... just till i get all of the mechanical stuff ironed out, and everything hooked up right. But i haven't decided on the computer that i would eventually get. The ZC computer would be my first choice except for the 112mph speed limiter. But, i know that there are some companies that will turn your Si ECU into the ZC version and not put on the speed limiter. I guess it all depends on my funds when it comes to that point. I may just get the teg computer (LS right?).

I will also use the ZC tranny because my current tranny is the main reason that i'm planning on doing any of this in the first place, i just figure that since i'm gonna get a new tranny, and motor mounts, that i might as well just ditch the whole combo and go JDM.

And yes, i will port match the header with the head.

 

Didn't notice a big difference from stock D16a6 to a DOHC ZC w/ DC 4-1 Header so I ended up selling it. The person's car who I sold/put it in bought the PM7 computer for it. Last night we took my stock b16 rex out and his ZC w/ intake and DC4-1 and he kept up pretty well. The stock B16 still had him but not by much.

 

I have to agree with the noise. It sounds so much better up top. The torque pull is noticable. Watch the distributors though. They have a tendency to die. It was an improvement. I think I would have had more fun doing a mini-me, with high compression. Overall, not bad. Get the 88-9 Teg ECU though. Mine still pulls up at 7500 RPM after its been warmed up.

 

i don't know what you guys smoking but i had a zc i was not to happy yeah you can beat sohc civic so what!!! zc can't keep up with dohc vtec's or dohc 1.8 ls's just spend the money on an ls or b16a its better you don't have to spend extra money to get the zc hp up to the other engines i have said eariler. i have replaced my zc with a b16a and i eat zc'c for lunch. i still have the zc for parts if anybody whats it

 

IMHO, the ZC ecu works better than the 89 Integra ecu. I'm running a PM6 which I chipped with ZC code, and I'm running a dual prom setup so I can run 2 programs and select them from a dash mounted switch. Right now it's stock ZC and Mugen ZC, Mugen pulls a tad harder but not much. As for the difference, going from a D15 DX motor to the ZC was night and day, and the money I didn't spend on the B16 put a Quaife in the tranny.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Da Integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't know what you guys smoking but i had a zc i was not to happy yeah you can beat sohc civic so what!!! zc can't keep up with dohc vtec's or dohc 1.8 ls's just spend the money on an ls or b16a its better you don't have to spend extra money to get the zc hp up to the other engines i have said eariler. i have replaced my zc with a b16a and i eat zc'c for lunch. i still have the zc for parts if anybody whats it</TD></TR></TABLE>

of course the b-series eng. are better, but for the money you spend on putting a b16 in your car(1400$+++) you can have a ZC mtor(495$) plus you can go turbo with the rest of the money...

 

I have had 2 ZCs and i am currently running a Z6 which smokes cars that the ZC couldnt hang with. So take it for what you want, lol. ZCs are louder, spin bearings easy, arent really that much quicker. I mean I thought I was wicked fast but that was because it was hwen I was a ricer. ZC looks better under the hood. Seeing a DOHC, but then when you run a 15.8 they look and laugh. I hit a 15.8 with a ZC and with my Z6. And my Z6 was not tuned, just vtec hooked up to a Field vtec controller, no fuel curves, and just exhaust.

 

si and DX trannys are the same i belive its the HF w/ the longer gears

 

Yeah, i'm going for "bang for your buck," not all out racer. I can't justify spending much more than it's gonna cost for the ZC. I've just got a tired motor and bad tranny, and can't see myself spending the same amount of money to get an oem setup again. Plus, there aren't really that many CRX's in my area that are worth looking at twice... and to my knowledge, there is one (maybe two) that has a B16, and two that have an LS swap... but nothing JDM... so i'll really not have that much competition here with a ZC swap cause i don't ever really see those guys anyway...

BUT I STILL NEED TO KNOW IF ANYONE HAS HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH GETTING MOTORS FROM NIPPON-MOTORS.COM, cause i've been mainly considering getting one from there if i do.

thx

(i don't know the difference between a dx and si tranny, but know for a fact that an hf has a lot lower gearing, i had an hf with an si tranny... it was odd, and it sucked cause i had the stock motor but still had to spin like 5grand down the bypass)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2genCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">si and DX trannys are the same i belive its the HF w/ the longer gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dumbest thing I have heard all year.

 

your right but to get your zc with turbo maybe cheaper but, the money spent on a stronger engine is worth the extra money and to tubro a b16a will out hp a zc anyways. plus i can use other parts from other b-engines from ls to type r parts. whats your gain if you only use parts from 88-89 integ engines and some of the parts aren't interchangeable. oh the timing belt don't come from integ its come from the prelude famliy!! now what the f*# ck?? how am i suppose to know that?? b-engines are the better deal here. when have you heard a pro use a zc to go in the 9's you tell me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Da Integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">your right but to get your zc with turbo maybe cheaper but, the money spent on a stronger engine is worth the extra money and to tubro a b16a will out hp a zc anyways. plus i can use other parts from other b-engines from ls to type r parts. whats your gain if you only use parts from 88-89 integ engines and some of the parts aren't interchangeable. oh the timing belt don't come from integ its come from the prelude famliy!! now what the f*# ck?? how am i suppose to know that?? b-engines are the better deal here. when have you heard a pro use a zc to go in the 9's you tell me. </TD></TR></TABLE>


He's not talking about 9 sec. and i was just talking price-wise... The b-series swap is really expensive, if you just want to get a more decent engine, than the regular one.
Now, how much will a b series swap run you for? 1400-2000$(or more) after everything is bought... and if you have a shop do the labor even worst...
You can easily get the ZC for 495$(if you pick it up, more for shipping of course) and it drops right in. The extra money use it to build the block (985$ I paid for my parts) and about 700-850$ for the junkyard turbo, with the AFC unit.

Last thing Nippon Motors is a good place to get your engine, i got mine from them. I think i talked to Ricardo or ssome like that...

 

I've always heard nippon was decent. I heard hmotorsonline was better so thats who I went with, didnt have a problem.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 2genCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">si and DX trannys are the same i belive its the HF w/ the longer gears</TD></TR></TABLE>

DX and Si Tranny gearing is the same but they have different final drives. I don't think HF is anything like the Si or DX and I assume that it does have high high gearing.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FourthGenHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">DX and Si Tranny gearing is the same but they have different final drives. I don't think HF is anything like the Si or DX and I assume that it does have high high gearing.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Correct. 3.888(longer) compared to 4.250(shorter) The HF tranny is as long as nobodys business. If you hit 7200rpms with a HF tranny and stock wheels youd be at 237mph. DX = 162. Si = 148. Course given you had the power and no air resistance etc etc. The ZC tranny has the shortest 1-5 gears but the DX final drive. The quickets tranny is the ZC + Si FD Hybrid. Heres the actual gear ratios...

Gear HF DX Si ZC
1st 3.250 3.250 3.250 3.250
2nd 1.650 1.894 1.894 1.944
3rd 1.033 1.259 1.259 1.346
4th 0.823 0.937 0.937 1.033
5th 0.694 0.771 0.771 0.878
FD 3.250 3.888 4.250 3.888

 

My opinion:

An absolute improvement form the A6. No complaints. I ran the ZC for just over a year before I became bored with it. Now I have a B17A1 in the same car. Makes the ZC feel like a big turd.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZC_CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">My opinion:

An absolute improvement form the A6. No complaints. I ran the ZC for just over a year before I became bored with it. Now I have a B17A1 in the same car. Makes the ZC feel like a big turd.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Makes me wish I had the money to go B-series, my ZC is fun.. more than it would be pretty nice. Sucks bein broke.

 

Don't mistake me, the ZC was a great bang for the buck. I loved it. It was a lot of fun. I just happened to stumble across a wrecked 92 GSR, while I was looking for an injector resister box, in a local junkyard and pick up the B17 really. really cheap.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZC_CRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't mistake me, the ZC was a great bang for the buck. I loved it. It was a lot of fun. I just happened to stumble across a wrecked 92 GSR, while I was looking for an injector resister box, in a local junkyard and pick up the B17 really. really cheap.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yea I remember that and to my knowledge you're the only one on this board with a B17 EF.


Modified by drjondurst at 1:28 AM 4/27/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Da Integra &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i don't know what you guys smoking but i had a zc i was not to happy yeah you can beat sohc civic so what!!! zc can't keep up with dohc vtec's or dohc 1.8 ls's just spend the money on an ls or b16a its better you don't have to spend extra money to get the zc hp up to the other engines i have said eariler. i have replaced my zc with a b16a and i eat zc'c for lunch. i still have the zc for parts if anybody whats it</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hmm..I still have a d16a6 in my CRX. I have beat a few 90-93 GS and LS's by 3 car lengths. I beat most 92-00 EX civics by 4-5 car lengths. I have raced two 99-00 Si with I/h/e and beat the red one by just a bumper and i pulled a fender on the blue Si. I pulled one car on a 92-95 SI Hb with i/h/e ( i had my 205 45 16's) on These are races from a dead stop. I think you guys had some lame d16a6's. I have seen alot of crx si run mid 15's with the stock a6 and bolt ons