I drive an 85 CRX with a B16A, and my suspension sucks. I'm putting money away now for suspension, and I'm planning on going all out. My car is a daily driver, autocrosser, with plans for track use in the future. Now, my intial plan was to get Koni Yellows all around, with Ground Control coilovers in the rear, and a 23mm torsion bar from OPM motorsports. Recently, the price for OPM's torsion bars jumped from $205 to $350, which IMO is just rediculous. I was looking around and found Lightspeed 25.7mm torsion bars with springs for $210 or something. I can take a lot of punishment, I don't mind my car being stiff. What will a 23mm bar feel like compared to the stock t-bar, and what will the 29 be like compared to both of those? My main question is, should I get the whole Lightspeed kit, t-bar and springs w/Konis, should I try to just get the Lightspeed t-bar, GC coilovers, and Konis, or should I lay out the $350 for the OPM 29mm bar and get GC coilovers and Konis. If you have a different idea for a setup that would work, I'd appreciate that too. Also, someone give me some pointers in spring rates too.

 

I'd get the konis and GC. The reason is flexibility. You can swap out spring rates to balance the car once you get more experience. The bar is a toss up. Some people like small (stock GSR size) bars with very stiff springs. Others prefer big bars with slighly less stiff springs. For a daily driver a larger bar can allow you to get slightly less stiff springs for a more comfortable ride on the street.

As for bars, the size is only part of the entire desision. Construction, mounting points, mounting methods, all need to be taken into account.

As for spring rates.....around here its a mixed bag. The setup from road racers vs. autocross are different. Personally, its a decision you have to make yourself based on what you want, how you drive, and how much you want to give up in comfort as a daily driver.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MattG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As for bars, the size is only part of the entire desision. Construction, mounting points, mounting methods, all need to be taken into account.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Can you tell me how the 23mm OPM bar, the 29mm OPM bar, and the 25.7mm Lightspeed bar compare in those ways?

 

Actually i just bought OPM's last 29mm bar and i'm not sure when they are doing the next batch........ They don't have any 27mm from what i hear and need a waiting list of 5 people before they order more.

Currently i have 24mm bars, i think they come to 200lbs/inch spring rate while the 29mm bars are something like 550lbs/inch.

I believe with 27mm+ bar size you'll want to have your Koni's velved to match and shortened shafts/body's.

This is also my street car so while see how the 29's feel........

But the 24mm seemed like a very very good T-bar for street use, just don't lower the car too much. The ride wasn't harsh or anything. What was harsh was the 450lbs/inch rear spring i used on the back.........rough indeed

PS, my 24mm bars are forsale. I'm asking $300cdn which is exactly what i paid for them 2 years ago. If your interested please let me know. If you need them soon another freind of mine has some 24mm for sale at the same price. Difference is, mine are still in the car and his aren't.

check this 1st gen specific message board.

http://www.redpepperracing.com...0345a

my e-mail is racin1234@hotmail.com

 

PS, for shocks go with koni, onyl real option for our car however i've heard some good things about tokico's. But that is usually cost biased


for a rear spring rate, 450lbs is good but harsh on the street. Maybe 300 or 350 would work well on the rear for a street/mild AutoX car.

 

I think he (MattG) was confusing the torsion bar "springs" on the G1 CRX/G1 Tegs with swaybars... The mounting is exactly the same since all the aftermarket t-bars for these cars use the stock torsion tubes...

I think Lightspeed also makes some 24.5 t-bars for the Teg but which are slightly longer. The reduced diameter and lenght would make these somewhat softer, if thats what you want. But you would need to get the tubes of a G1 Teg and relocate the rear bracket rearward a little...

But yeah, just get the t-bars separate and then get the 4 Konis and 2 GC coilovers for the rear...

 

Ok, with the GC coilovers and Koni Yellows decided, I just need to decide which size torsion bar to get and what spring rates to get for the coilovers. I'd still like to hear a reason why people say that 27+mm torsion bars are unstreetable. I know that the GC coilovers come with 250 lb. springs in the rear if you don't specify. I don't mind having a stiff daily driven car. I'm thinking now a 25.7mm torsion bar from Lightspeed, and 300-450 lb. spring rates for the rear? Will Ground Control charge me extra to put in stiffer springs in the coilovers, or how does that work? Also, if I go the route like I said above, do I need to have the Konis valved? What the heck is that anyway?

 

440 is max for stock koni yellows according to everyone who ive talked to.
just keep that in mind

 

The Lightspeed bars are probably the 27mm or 27.5mm (short production span I believe) units. I bought the 29mm bars from OPM's first order but still haven't had the car on the track .

I have a GT4 Civic and used 550# springs in the rear with the 27.5mm bars up front. To determine the increase in stiffness from one bar to the other just do the following math.

(larger bar dia)^4/(smaller bar dia^4) so 29^4/27.5^4 = 1.237 so the bigger bars are 23.7% stiffer.

Either get those 24mm bars that the other member has for sale or try calling Nopi and see what they have for Lightspeed bars.

BTW, for road racing most don't run a front sway bar in the CRX and Civics, just alot of rear spring and the a rear sway bar. If you run any bar up front, only use the stock CRX bar since it is the smallest.

 

http://www.lightspeedracing.com

Go to products, then springs and torsion bars. For the 85-87 CRX they have 25.7mm torsion bars.

What is the proper spring rate to go along with a 25.7mm torsion bar, which, if I did my calculations correctly, has approximately an equivalent 400lb. spring rate in front? Should I try to max out the Konis with 440lb. springs in the back?

 

All sway bars aren't equal, so trying to generalize for any diameter bar without taking into account construction, mount points, design, etc. can only give you a rough estimate, at best.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stealthx32 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">All sway bars aren't equal, so trying to generalize for any diameter bar without taking into account construction, mount points, design, etc. can only give you a rough estimate, at best.</TD></TR></TABLE>

good information IF we were talking about swaybars, but we're not....

as for how high a spring rate you can run, i'll be running 500lbs front and 600lbs rear springs on my CRX on off the shelf koni yellows..

they were off my friends CRX.. it rode REALLY stiff, but was tolerable..

 

d0h. someone slap me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Rexman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

good information IF we were talking about swaybars, but we're not....

as for how high a spring rate you can run, i'll be running 500lbs front and 600lbs rear springs on my CRX on off the shelf koni yellows..

they were off my friends CRX.. it rode REALLY stiff, but was tolerable.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You ran 600lbs rear springs on off the shelf Konis? Does this mean the guy that said 440lb springs were the max for Konis was full of crap? For a car that weighs 2000lbs with me in it, a 25.7mm torsion bar equivalent to about a 400lb. spring rate in the front, what springs should I order to use in my coilovers for the rear, as a starting point?

 

for a starting point try 350lbs/inch rear. I think this will be plenty stiff for what your doing. Springs are cheap anyway, if you want to go stiffer.


450lbs/inch is the max, however i will be trying 550 and 650lbs/inch rear for track only, i will swap my 450lbs/inch back in for the street. The springs will just be underdampened. How important rear dampning for this car is to be determined. Hopefully not very

With our rules i can't add a rear sway bar and stay in my present class so i will be running kumho 235/45/13 up front and 185/60/13 Hankook Z2000's in the rear. I'm really hoping the tire size offset will make up for not running 800-1000lbs/inch rear springs and sway bar. Acutally, any comments on this setup? In any case the car will look badass with the anti drag racing look...........YO the look alone is diffently worth the money for 2 pany's and 2 tires....

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Krispy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

450lbs/inch is the max, however i will be trying 550 and 650lbs/inch rear for track only</TD></TR></TABLE>

Why do you say 450lb. springs are the max, if you use 650 for the track? Do you mean the maximmum tolerable street driven spring weight? Or do you mean the max for off the shelf Konis? I'm leaning towards 450lb. rear springs, but won't the rear of my car stick too good, with an equivalent 400lb spring rate in front, and 450 in the rear? Or will this be ok, as long as I play with my tire pressures?

Also, please explain dampning and underdampning to me.

 

I'm running Lightspeed 25mm bars up front in my '89 Integra, with GC coilovers in rear (325s), along with OFS Koni Yellows. The 25mm bars are roughly 255lb.

Are the CRX/Civic Lightspeed bars different than the Integra Lightspeed bars? If so, the CRX 25mm bars would be stiffer than the Integra bars, due to the shorter length.

For street/autox use, I would recommend the OPM 27mm bars, and at least 400lb. springs in the rear.

 

no, 450lbs is apparently the max for the shocks.

I will run the stiffer springs because i need the extra rate back there. Hopefully the shocks won't puke and i'll get away with it. IE, not optimal.

 

As much as I'd like to go for the OPM 27mm torsion bar, I just can't see it being worth $350, compared to the Lightspeed 25.7mm torsion bar for $220. Should I stop being a cheap bastard and just buy the OPM 27mm bar? Is it really worth it?

Also, does OPM give any kind of Honda Challenge discount?

 

Come on guys, is the 27mm torsion bar from OPM really worth $350, compared to the 25.7mm bar from Lightspeed for $220?

 

Do you need a 27 or a 25? It never pays to cheap out. If you need the 27 and get the 25 to save $150, you will end up selling the 25 at a loss to get the 27 anyway. Just skip that step if the 27 is what you really need. OPM makes great stuff, I am sure $250 is worth it.

 

We can't tell you what to do, i think we've presented enough info for you to make a informed choice. If this is just a ocasional AX and Track or are you looking for every last .1 of a secound you can get? Whats your criteria?


PS, the OPM stuff comes from Sway-Away apparently

 

Thanks for all your help guys. I think I've decided on a 27mm torsion bar and 450lb. springs for the coilovers in the rear.

 

I'd get the 25.7s.

I've always been undeer the impression that 27s are road course only, due to the stiffness. My 23s are pretty dang harsh, I can't fathom running 27s on the streets, especially here in crappy road Michigan.

 

yeah but your a baby