My original post was locked because I wasn't specific enough.

Anyways, I'm asking about ES100 experiences because of the front-to-rear grip. On a particular EG that I have performance driving experience with, the behaviour of this EG has gravitated towards the loose end of the handling spectrum with the ES100s. Every previous set of tires on this EG did not change the EG's basic understeering behaviour. In chronological order are the tires and wheels this EG has had...

185/60-14 Champiro generic tires (OEM steelies)
195/50-15 Nitto NT450 (95 GSRs)
195/50-15 Bridgestone Potenza RE910 (98 GSRs)
195-50-15 Cooper Cobra (96 GSRs)
185/60-14 Bridgestone Potenza RE92 (93 GSRs)
195/50-15 Falken Ziex 502 (97 GSRs)
195/50-15 Bridgestone Potenza RE730 (98 GSRs)
195/50-15 Yokohama AVS ES100 (97 GSRs)

With the ES100s:
Upon entry to a long, steady-state corner, there is zero to mild understeer as the car takes a set to the apex. Mid corner to exit is when the rears step out a bit. This only happens when the car is at maximum adhesion.

The setup of this EG is unchanged. The only difference were the different tires this EG has had in the past 6 years.

Based on dry performance of the ES100, I would think that the loose behaviour may become more pronounced in the wet. This EG exhibits some lift-throttle oversteer in the wet under performance/competitive driving conditions.

Has anyone experienced this type of behavioural change in a car before?

I have only one outing so far, so I have not been able to ascertain whether or not this new behaviour is advantageous.


Modified by Outrun at 11:21 AM 4/19/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Based on dry performance of the ES100, I would think that the loose behaviour may become more pronounced in the wet.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Based on peformance of any tire on any car, the car's "attitude" will most definitely become more pronounced and easier to find due to the lower available traction. It's all the same, it's just the limits are lower. Shrunken traction circle.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">This EG exhibits some lift-throttle oversteer in the wet under performance/competitive driving conditions.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just about all cars do that. Brake/lift in a straight line, not while turning.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has anyone experienced this type of behavioural change in a car before?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Most definitely. Different tires, different slip angles.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I have only one outing so far, so I have not been able to ascertain whether or not this new behaviour is advantageous</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you found this "new" behavior on this outing, I'm thinking that was probably the closest you've ever driven your car to the limit, and you got your first taste of what it really drives like. Time to keep doing these outings (provided they're done in a safe environment) and get the feel for what it's like to drive the car like that frequently and comfortably before drawing any conclusions that the car is all of a sudden a different hairy-transients machine.

 

I've driven this particular EG many times at Streets of Willow and Buttonwillow #13. With the exception of the ES100s, the EG is a predictable understeering car.

The part of the track (Buttonwillow) it's most apparent is counter clockwise at the hairpin after the esses (near Formula Mazda corner) and clockwise on the flat-out sweeper approaching Lost Hills.

Anyways, I hope to do more testing with this tire.

 

ES100 sidewalls are much softer than equivalent tires. You need a few more psi to counteract the wishy-washy handling feeling.

 

I've got ES100's and I have noticed that this tire only really starts gripping at larger slip angles than most other street tires. This can make it seem like the rear is 'stepping out' but you are just working with a higher slip angle back there. If you are actually talking about the car's balance being different, I'd say work on your pressures if you don't find it to your liking. That will likely make more of a difference in handling characteristics than the small differences in tire construction.

These tires are pretty decent. I found I really warmed up to them after burning off the first 1/32-2/32's of tread. Tread squirm was very apparent when new.

 

I've only had one outing so far...haven't had a chance to test different pressures, but every previous set I've always done 42psi front and 40psi rear.