I'm building a 91 DX to hopefully be at least regionally competitive in SM. I should have plenty of power in a month or two but am having trouble with the suspension and wheel/tire set up.

From reading around I'm looking seriously at the GC/Koni setup. I'm not sure what rates as this is still a street car. Are the Red Koni shocks as strong as the Yellows? I know they adjustment is completely different but they are a LOT cheaper. Going by the "Price, quality, adjustability: Pick two" rule I'd prefer Price and quality. I'd rather adjust the part behind the steerinbg wheel.

My street tires are a 205/40/16. So far it's been "ok" even though the tires are not that good. I need to get onto competition tires and would like the Kumho V700s. I would like a 205 or wider and a smaller lighter wheel without bvreaking the bank. I saw a 235/50/13 that would go on a 13x8" wheel but haven't found many 13x8" wheels that are affordable and/or ones that would fit.

Basically my question is what are you all running wheel and tire size and what has proven to work well on a 4th gen Civic?

 

If you are worried about price......

I think you are in the wrong class with that car

I'd suggest running it in FSP.

 

As .RJ mentioned SM is not for the frugal. Penny pinchers need not apply. The same goes for FSP, although cheaper it still isn't for the budget minded.

If you're looking to keep costs down I would run Stock, STS, STX in that order for cheap to less cheap.

I noticed you said you will have plenty of power in a month or two. If you don't mind me asking, who much did you dump into the motor? Without knowing how much you put into your motor I'm willing to bet it's more then enough to put together a sweet suspension that would yield better autocross times then any power mods.

The order of importance for modding you car should be (simplified):
1. You (you already knew that)
2. Tires/Wheels
3. Suspension
4. Engine

 

I bought the car with a ZC, Si trans, Si ECU. I've sold some parts (nitrous kit) and started amassing the parts I need for about 180 - 200 whp from a turbo.

I'm not looking to "pinch pennies", I'm looking to not spend money needlessly. Just like I said: I'll take price and quality over adjustability any day. As far as an SP class, which were faster at nationals? SM is no where near developed and at this point I am not a nationals caliber driver and am not, at least for this season, creating a nationals quality car. I am getting a good start on it and have been more successful in this car locally than I was in my Focus last year.

As it sits today:

91 DX, Stock ZC, 11lb flywheel, clutch masters clutch, 2.5" exhaust, intake, Si trans, Si ECU

I'm makeing around 110 - 115 at the wheels (estimate from quarter mile times)

Withing 1 - 2 months it should be more like 180 - 200 whp. The backseat will be removed, the battery will be in the rear, hopefully to offset the added weight in the front.

Basically my budget for the engine work is around $1200 with another $2000 for suspension, wheels and tires for this season.



Modified by spankenstein at 3:50 PM 4/22/2003

 

Bump.

 

Don't quote me, but I think removing the back seat puts you in EP, not SM. I can check my rules CD...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89STS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Don't quote me, but I think removing the back seat puts you in EP, not SM. I can check my rules CD...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Back seat removal is legal for SM

 

Yeah, I just read that. Thanks.

 

im running a non competitive SM car this year looks like
koni yellows H&R progressive springs (stifest ones they sell race oe application)
new bushings
15inch rims one set of azenis and a set of either hoosiers or victoracers (working on that still)
b18b- onto a turbo lsvtec later on this summer
ys1 lsd tranny

180-200whp isnt enough to be competitive in SM you need at least 220whp-290whp supercharger or NA (turbo if you are good with left foot braking)
custom valved konis and 600/800 springs hoosiers, integra gsr brakes, and lowered as low as itll still run.

SM is a very tough class against the highest budgets and damn good drivers, m3s, vipers, mustangs, s4's

 

Given the budget you mentioned ($2k), I'd get the Yellows and a GC kit. You can get 13x8 wheels from Diamond Racing pretty inexpensively - my 13x7s were about $60/each. Use Hoosiers or maybe the new V700s. That uses most of your budget. Use any extra on a rear swaybar.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Audipwr1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
180-200whp isnt enough to be competitive in SM you need at least 220whp-290whp supercharger or NA (turbo if you are good with left foot braking)
custom valved konis and 600/800 springs hoosiers, integra gsr brakes, and lowered as low as itll still run.

SM is a very tough class against the highest budgets and damn good drivers, m3s, vipers, mustangs, s4's </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I agree that SM is tough but remember he's got probably a sub 2000lb car once it's stripped out, i would think closer to 1900lb. 180WHP would probably put the thing in the low 13's easily (probably 12's) and 400lb springs on a car that light barely rocks the car from side to side. It's just hard to drive a turbo car in auto-x. I would say worry more about the suspension on this car than with the motor because you can be more competitive with a killer suspension setup than you can with a tricked out motor. I would go with 400-500# springs with koni yellows, then get some adjustable camber plates.

Oh, and for 13x8 wheels axis has a wheel called the lenso VPD and it's only 9lbs with a 25+ offset so it could clear easily. check it out --&gt; http://www.axiswheels.com/lenso.html

those wheels are killer for auto-x!!

I know you're worried about price but for SM suspension isn't a place to skimp. Go for the yellows, well worth the cost and get some nice stiff springs for that thing.

s

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by spankenstein &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> From reading around I'm looking seriously at the GC/Koni setup. I'm not sure what rates as this is still a street car. Are the Red Koni shocks as strong as the Yellows? I know they adjustment is completely different but they are a LOT cheaper. Going by the "Price, quality, adjustability: Pick two" rule I'd prefer Price and quality. I'd rather adjust the part behind the steerinbg wheel....

...Basically my question is what are you all running wheel and tire size and what has proven to work well on a 4th gen Civic?</TD></TR></TABLE>

as i have found, and numerous others here have found, buying springs and tuning suspension is rarely a one-time affair. if you buy the koni reds they may be fine for now, but eventually you will replace them. if you get the yellows, you can get them revalved down the road, and for autox use, i think revalved konis are as much shock as you'll need. you can read through the koni/gc vs. jdm coilover thread to see many perspectives on the issue.

for local events, you should be fine with rates that will work on stock koni yellows. as you improve you will probably want to make changes to the suspension. i'd advise giving yourself more flexibility now so you'll have it down the road.

geratol is running the lenso wheels, but i believe they are 13x7.5, not 13x8. 13s with 225 hoosiers seem to be the choice of integras in dsp nationally, so i'd imagine they are also a good bet for a civic in sm.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stevel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yeah I agree that SM is tough but remember he's got probably a sub 2000lb car once it's stripped out, i would think closer to 1900lb. 180WHP would probably put the thing in the low 13's easily (probably 12's) and 400lb springs on a car that light barely rocks the car from side to side. It's just hard to drive a turbo car in auto-x. I would say worry more about the suspension on this car than with the motor because you can be more competitive with a killer suspension setup than you can with a tricked out motor. I would go with 400-500# springs with koni yellows, then get some adjustable camber plates.

Oh, and for 13x8 wheels axis has a wheel called the lenso VPD and it's only 9lbs with a 25+ offset so it could clear easily. check it out --&gt; http://www.axiswheels.com/lenso.html

those wheels are killer for auto-x!!

I know you're worried about price but for SM suspension isn't a place to skimp. Go for the yellows, well worth the cost and get some nice stiff springs for that thing.

s</TD></TR></TABLE>

remember 440 is the max for stock yellows too.....

 

well i was in sm because of a carbon fiber hood (thats gone now) and i was not competitive what so ever. this is what i am going to be using for my new suspension wheel/tire setup

- ground control coilovers (475F 575R)
- koni yellows
-ST rear lower sway bar
-skunk 2 rear lower tie bar
-neuspeed rear upper strut bar
-neuspeed front upper strut bar
- removed front sway bar
-ES hyperflex bushing kit
-prothane rear trailing arm bushings

WHEEL/TIRE
-13x7 panasports
-235 45 13 kumho victoracer v700

in my case i cant do rims and tires first because they will stick out beyond my fender wells and rub do to my soft suspension right now.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Audipwr1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

remember 440 is the max for stock yellows too.....

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't think so. While it's not a "set" number for the max that the stock yellows can handle as it depends on that particular setup I have seen many people run much higher than 440# on stock yellows and not have a problem with the shock being able to properly damp the spring. The max is somewhere around the 600# range. CRX Lee had a good post about this and what the maximum rate that they can handle is but I can't find it. Like he had said it's not a set amount, but more a function of your setup and I'm sure he would say they can handle more than 440# springs.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Philbert &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

geratol is running the lenso wheels, but i believe they are 13x7.5, not 13x8. 13s with 225 hoosiers seem to be the choice of integras in dsp nationally, so i'd imagine they are also a good bet for a civic in sm.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

you are correct. 13x7.5.

s

 

http://www.truechoice.com

max spring rate for koni yellow 440


they are the pros on konis...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Audipwr1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://www.truechoice.com
max spring rate for koni yellow 440
they are the pros on konis...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with that one. KONI are the pros on KONIs and depending upon the set-up many folks will have good success above 440 with OTS Sports. Too many variables to draw a hard line in the sand.

 

ultimatley you can do as you wish
kybs will also run a 500 on a 2inch drop but for how long and how hard is the question.

Personally I draw my line at 440 until they get revalved

 

CRX Lee, don't you work for Koni?

s

 

Thanks for all the replies. The biggest hurdle I have right now is the tires. My times would be in the top in STS but the engine puts me in SM.

The 13x7.5 inch wheels are what I was thinking as far as size. However those keep mentioning only drag racing and only slicks. Are these going to be strong enough to handle autocrossing?

As far as not being super competitive in SM, I don't care that much. It's the only class that I could be happy with a car in. I love to modify cars getting the best performance/$$$ ratio. It's not cheap, it's a challenge and it's fun. On top of that if I wanted to be competitive I'd put Konis and Hoosiers on an HS Mini

 

There's more than a couple cars running the "Tom Slick" Lensos here, an Integra and 2 or 3 Miatas.

Nationally, I don't know, but here in NWR/SCCA all the top SM cars are FWD and have anywhere from 150whp-230+, $1500+ shock/spring packages, Quaifes, and Hoosiers or v700s.

(and no, I'm not a top car.)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stevel &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">CRX Lee, don't you work for Koni?

s</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yup.

 

Just wanted to make sure. I'd like to avoid wheel failure as much as possible

In the KC Region it's a bunch of M3s this year with the exception of one Impreza 2.5 RS that is always in 1st or 2nd.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thought so. I'd take your advice over true choice anyday!! for the chime in! It's always nice to be backed up by the source.

s

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CRX Lee &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Yup.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So as a Koni employee, what spring rate would be the maxium on a 91 EF chassis, weighing 1900 lbs with 22mm rear sway bar, r compound tires.
Does Koni warranty a shock if it has been used with over #440 springs and then they blow out?