Kind of a random question...
Wheel size for a CSP Miata : Does 13x8.5 with a 5" backspace sound right?
Should be the same thing I'm running on my Integra right? Woah... Do I run a 5" backspace?

...I'm so confused...

 

ok... I see how its gonna be...

I was hoping there was a random Miata person out there that would know this. I at least got a bunch of you to check this out...

 

http://www.miata.net

 

well if your asking if you can run a miata wheel on an integra. i wouldnt do it unless you have pics of it done. at CMP we put [aftermarket] miata wheels on a old crx hatch and we lost a tire, almost 2 and almost a whole car. the hub on a miata is smaller than a civic hatch. but im not sure about these newer models.

 

Stock Miata and Stock Civic/Integra wheels have the same bolt pattern and nearly identical offset.
I'm not sure about center bore.

And Fowler was running a set of Spec Miata wheels and tires on the Civic he ran at Lowes last year. FWIW.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Stock Miata and Stock Civic/Integra wheels have the same bolt pattern and nearly identical offset.
I'm not sure about center bore.

And Fowler was running a set of Spec Miata wheels and tires on the Civic he ran at Lowes last year. FWIW.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think the center bore is smaller on the miata. But that's not the issue here. To answer another question, no I wasn't planning on sharing my wheels with a miata or visa versa. A friend of mine is looking for wheels for his miata... for CSP,,, and I figured... Hey, honda-tech has some of the best info around (a little *** kissin' goes a long way ) so I'd ask here. The backspacing is the concern. I just remember hearing (from some where I can't remember) that CSP miatas basicly run the same wheels a DSP integra would, tho with a different center bore (or maybe a ring).

Short version : I'm trying to help him find a 13" wheel for a CSP miata

 

Matt,

Find Steve Ashcraft or Jim's Email and ask them. Since they are running a CSP Miata up in your area there.


That or go to the Evo list and find Andy Hollis. He is a real nice guy and always willing to answer questions.

Eric

 

Dammit Matt, leaking my secret plans already!

While miata.net is a great resource for some things, the info isn't always quite what I need. Honestly, I lurk over here cause youse guys have more interesting conversation - 50% of the posts in our autox forum go like this: "I went to my first event yesterday and it was awesome!".

I guess DSP Integra run 5" backspace, which I'm pretty sure is right for a 1.6 Miata, since the front brakes were larger on the 1.8's and might not fit - but this is where the problems lies... nobody has a straight answer! Every thread that starts off "Does a 13" wheel with a 5" backspace fit my 1.6?" ends with something like "I have Victoracers on my stock alloys".

Here's a total newbie question, are they hubcentric or lugcentric? Also, I plan on running 235/45 V700's... as far as wheel selection, what are the advantages of 8", 8.5" and 9" wheel widths?

Thanks in advance!
~kevin

 

Thanks for the advice Eric!

Yo Kevin,
Yeah, the cats out of the bag!!! you know me I can't keep a secret to save my life! Anyways, I heard back from Steve and his response went a little something like this...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> I'm running 235x13 kumhos on 8.5 in rims with 5.5 inch back spacing. I'd recommend going with 8 in rims with 5.5 in back spacing. It will keep the offset closer to stock which is better than what I ended up with. No problems with fit. The most important thing to worry about is offset. Mazda did a great job and we shouldn't mess with it. You need a wheel with the stock center bore which I don't remember right off the top of my head (51mm?). You can always use plastic spacers to get the center bore correct. This is what lots of aftermarket wheel suppliers do. The point is to not use the lugs to center the wheel. Hope this helps. Feel to ask for more details or clarification. Steve</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think that covers pretty much everything... so ends our journey through Mazda-tech.com

 

baonest1 you moron, didn't you notice the miata wheel wasn't on the hub properly before tightening the lug nuts?

As for the original poster, i put 94 miata 11.6 lb 14 x 6 wheels on my crx. Yes I had to shave down the inside of the wheel to fit over the hub, by 2 mm total, or 1 mm all around the hub. It wasn't too bad, just took a grinding disc that was ground down, and started taking material off, then dremiled it smooth when finished. Whell balanced no problem with azenis tires on there. And after this mod, my H stock CRX DX won my local autocross with the pax handicap system. I'm very happy with my miata wheels, As they were only 125 bucks for the wheels, and 210 for the tires. Try getting rims and tires for that price at tirerack. Plus 11.6 lbs is quite light for wheels.

 

Sooooo 6" wide wheels came stock on CRX's now? Sounds like your car is illegal for HS, not that it matters if you're winning on street tires.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by keywe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dammit Matt, leaking my secret plans already!

While miata.net is a great resource for some things, the info isn't always quite what I need. Honestly, I lurk over here cause youse guys have more interesting conversation - 50% of the posts in our autox forum go like this: "I went to my first event yesterday and it was awesome!".

I guess DSP Integra run 5" backspace, which I'm pretty sure is right for a 1.6 Miata, since the front brakes were larger on the 1.8's and might not fit - but this is where the problems lies... nobody has a straight answer! Every thread that starts off "Does a 13" wheel with a 5" backspace fit my 1.6?" ends with something like "I have Victoracers on my stock alloys".

Here's a total newbie question, are they hubcentric or lugcentric? Also, I plan on running 235/45 V700's... as far as wheel selection, what are the advantages of 8", 8.5" and 9" wheel widths?

Thanks in advance!
~kevin</TD></TR></TABLE>

keywe!! this is ricey from RC.
i am reasonably sure that diamond wheels are lugcentric. as a result, you'll need to buy lugnuts from Diamond, as they run a funny taper angle. i run circle racing wheels on my civic, and they both have similar designs. i read somewhere that it comes from the fact that the stamped steel center will never have a really accurate center hole placement. how the lugholes are any more accurate is beyond me, but whatever. ive driven on the Circles a few times, and they run fine as long as you're sure to torque them down as much as possible with the wheel off the ground

 

Sorry, but could someone enlighten me and define a 5" -"backspace"??? Thanks.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Killa-X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">baonest1 you moron, didn't you notice the miata wheel wasn't on the hub properly before tightening the lug nuts?

As for the original poster, i put 94 miata 11.6 lb 14 x 6 wheels on my crx. Yes I had to shave down the inside of the wheel to fit over the hub, by 2 mm total, or 1 mm all around the hub. It wasn't too bad, just took a grinding disc that was ground down, and started taking material off, then dremiled it smooth when finished. Whell balanced no problem with azenis tires on there. And after this mod, my H stock CRX DX won my local autocross with the pax handicap system. I'm very happy with my miata wheels, As they were only 125 bucks for the wheels, and 210 for the tires. Try getting rims and tires for that price at tirerack. Plus 11.6 lbs is quite light for wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

get a rulebook and stop cheating

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Killa-X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">baonest1 you moron, didn't you notice the miata wheel wasn't on the hub properly before tightening the lug nuts?

As for the original poster, i put 94 miata 11.6 lb 14 x 6 wheels on my crx. Yes I had to shave down the inside of the wheel to fit over the hub, by 2 mm total, or 1 mm all around the hub. It wasn't too bad, just took a grinding disc that was ground down, and started taking material off, then dremiled it smooth when finished. Whell balanced no problem with azenis tires on there. And after this mod, my H stock CRX DX won my local autocross with the pax handicap system. I'm very happy with my miata wheels, As they were only 125 bucks for the wheels, and 210 for the tires. Try getting rims and tires for that price at tirerack. Plus 11.6 lbs is quite light for wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Can someone tell me why this guy is bringing this over a year old post back just to bust on someone?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Can someone tell me why this guy is bringing this over a year old post back just to bust on someone? </TD></TR></TABLE>

At least he knows how to use the search. Hmmm........

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=853205

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Killa-X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">HOWEVER, to autocross in the stock class, i need to have my intake manifold look like the DX manifold, SO, my question is
Can you do the SI ecu swap, wire up the injectors, and resistor box, BUT just run injector power wires from injector 1 and 3 to one of the DX injectors, and run the injector power wires from injector 2 and 4 to the other DX injector? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sounds like a cheating bastard to me.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Killa-X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> As they were only 125 bucks for the wheels, and 210 for the tires. Try getting rims and tires for that price at tirerack. Plus 11.6 lbs is quite light for wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

sucker.

i got 15x7 @ 13lbs wheels from tirerack for $109/per.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by InfamousDC2FI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry, but could someone enlighten me and define a 5" -"backspace"??? Thanks. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Backspace is used in a similar manner as offset is used. Where offset is measured from the wheel's centerpoint to the hub, back space is measured from the wheel's hub to the inner edge of the wheel...

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/offset.htm shows offset.... they used to have an example of backspacing as well... but I guess that changed.

my modified tirerack (sorry guys!) image...


so... backspace = (wheelwidth/2) + offset... I think that's right.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Watkinsm3 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so... backspace = (wheelwidth/2) + offset... I think that's right.</TD></TR></TABLE>

wouldnt it be width minus offset?

 

teamslowdog, you are correct. My car isn't HF legal, BUT....lots of stuff isn't legal where i autocross, so that's how I make up for it. Like the colt turbo runing not stock boost in HS that nobody will confront about. If I did have the money, I would buy some good R compound tires and be HS legal, BUT since I don't have that kind of money, i'll stick with the azenis, and not legal width.

Oh, and yeah that manifold thing that you posted cig smoking guy, that would be illegal as well. Just like a million other things people do. There are losers and cheaters at the local level. Just like the kid in your math class in 10th grade that looked at your exam, and you could either not cheat, or cheat and gain back the advantage that he got from you.

Did I fail to mention that the shifter kart I beat wasn't legal either? Hmmm, an illegal shifter kart, or me gaining 3 hp from switching to a quasi mpfi-dpfi

My bad.

Woah,
Quote
sucker.

i got 15x7 @ 13lbs wheels from tirerack for $109/per.

That's damn cheap. When was that sale?

Oh, and since you guys are all rule masters, can you tell me if it's now illegal to swap an SI motor into a non SI hatch or CRX for STS, and STS2?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Killa-X &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">teamslowdog, you are correct. My car isn't HF legal, BUT....lots of stuff isn't legal where i autocross, so that's how I make up for it. Like the colt turbo runing not stock boost in HS that nobody will confront about. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Just because someone else is cheating doesnt mean its acceptable for you to cheat. If you do not have the ***** to confront the owner or file a protest, then you're up the creek, and you should just deal with it.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, and yeah that manifold thing that you posted cig smoking guy, that would be illegal as well. Just like a million other things people do.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I dont smoke. Again, because someone else is cheating doesnt mean that you need to. Just drive better. Chances are the ones who are cheating are worse drivers any ways, and are trying cover the difference with their cars. They usually come up with the short straw.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Did I fail to mention that the shifter kart I beat wasn't legal either? Hmmm, an illegal shifter kart</TD></TR></TABLE>

Shifter karts arent even in your class.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Oh, and since you guys are all rule masters, can you tell me if it's now illegal to swap an SI motor into a non SI hatch or CRX for STS, and STS2?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

No it is not legal.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by .RJ &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

wouldnt it be width minus offset?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nope... it would be if offset was measured from the outside in but it isn't... its measured from the center line out to the hub.

6" wheel
40mm offset
center line is = 3" = 3x25.4 = 76.2mm
back space is = 76.2mm + 40mm = 116mm = 4.57"

if we measure from the outside and subtract as you suggest...
Width = 6*25.4 = 152.4mm
back space is = 152.4 - 40 = 112.4mm = 4.43"

This example doesn't show the difference as much it would on a larger wheel. Remember as backspace increases so does positive offset. (meaning the wheel is moved inward toward the body of the car).

So we repeat these equations with a 55mm offset... not common but it makes the point!

6" wheel
55mm offset
center line is = 3" = 3x25.4 = 76.2mm
back space is = 76.2mm + 55mm = 131.2mm = 5.17"

if we measure from the outside and subtract as you suggest...
Width = 6*25.4 = 152.4mm
back space is = 152.4 - 55 = 97.4mm = 3.83"

see ze relationship? in the top one using my equation we increased the offset (moved the wheel in) and recieved a larger backspacing. with your equation we did the same thing with offset and were rewarded with a smaller backspacing... this is incorrrect!


EDIT : A good example to note is that assuming you keep the same backspace on a wheel and increase the width by 1 inch... That inch will be added to the outside of the wheel and not effect the inner wheel clearence. If you add 1 inch to a wheel while maintaing the same offset... each side are going to gain a half inch of width. So You'll need an extra 1/2 inch of clearence in the fender. Uh... yeah!


Modified by Watkinsm3 at 12:37 PM 5/7/2004

 

IU bought 13x9 diamond racing wheels from a guy running a '91 Miata CSP car to run on my '91 CRX HF/Si hybrid CSP or on my '92 Civic CX Hybrid SM (stock CX brakes) car.

they are 5" backspace and fit all 3 cars.

nice!

yes the Miata hub register is smaller.

*edit, does he want to buy my 13x9 diamond wheels? they have 2 yr old a3s03 hoosiers on them, 225/50R15, one is corded from a bad flatspot, the others are fine. I might go 14x7 instead... my gearing is ridiculous with ts 4.9 fd
yes the Miata can still whoop my butt!

 

The original post is over a year old. So don't count on this guy wanting to buy the wheels.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Crosser &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">The original post is over a year old. So don't count on this guy wanting to buy the wheels. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah, good point! That Miata was prematurely "retired" almost a year ago... He's no longer looking for wheel for it.