i'm sitting here thinking...

sound quality depends on the crossovers and the speakers. the amp is just there to amplify the signal from the h/u, so it doesn't matter which amp you get... as long as it does the job of magnifying the frequency, it should be the same.

if this is wrong could someone correct me?

i'm thinking about buying some cheap amps (possibly bazooka for the subs and crunch for the components) to run my mb quart rsc216's and 1 12" JL w6. what do you guys think?

 

SSBP

I generally agree with this. My thoughts have alway been get the best hu you can afford, as far as sq goes and nice speakers. I put less emphasis on amps than some others, but I wouldn't go too cheap either. If s/n is over 100db then you are probably doing fine. I am opposed to buying 2 amps for a pair of speakers and a sub. A 50x4 or 75x4 would be much better for you since the setup of a single amp is much simpler. I consider $1 per watt a reasonable price for an amp.

 

A watt is a watt. Just make sure you have a decent crossover, be it in the deck or the amp.

Edit: or an another active unit.

 

I disagree...I find that the amps to make a difference. Some are just down right built better and reduse sn better that what they claim they do. In my car...eclipse HU, focal f/r, 2 jl 10w0 and a jl 500/5 sounds badass. I've used this setup to test amps for many friends. I've found that with my setup, JL, US Amps, Autotek, and Soundtream (old) sounds the best, hit the hardest when pushed. On the other end...RF, PPI, Orion, Pioneer Premier, and eclipse didn't quite cut it for my ears. I'm kinda strict on my preferences, and am getting into sound judging, so I may not be the best to comment actually....anyway....my .02

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by baldylox &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I disagree...I find that the amps to make a difference. Some are just down right built better and reduse sn better that what they claim they do. In my car...eclipse HU, focal f/r, 2 jl 10w0 and a jl 500/5 sounds badass. I've used this setup to test amps for many friends. I've found that with my setup, JL, US Amps, Autotek, and Soundtream (old) sounds the best, hit the hardest when pushed. On the other end...RF, PPI, Orion, Pioneer Premier, and eclipse didn't quite cut it for my ears. I'm kinda strict on my preferences, and am getting into sound judging, so I may not be the best to comment actually....anyway....my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>


guess what? the xover, and other features makes the amp sound like what it is right now. thats why they recommend finding an amp that is high quality. so in the end..you're just summing up what they are saying. btw...whats sn?

 

i disagre!!

a watt is NOT a watt, if anything dont go cheap on your amp!

amps can and will affect sq as much as h/u or crossover or eq or even speakers!

run some jl audio w3's on a rockwood '600 watt' amp and you'll see what i mean

 

"Your system is as good as it's weakest link." If your source, interconnects, speakers and misc are the best quality installed by the best installer in the world with low-quality amplifiers: your sound will be low quality.

I noticed a world of difference after installing a Diamond Audio class D to run my subs to replace an old SoundStream Ref 500 (despite the fact that the SS had been rebuilt about 3 times...)

 

SN is signal to noise ratio

A watt is a watt. Some times it may just have more noise in it.

The difference in amps is that every manufacturer has a different way of specifying power. Some are over rated some are underrated. Cheap are usually overated the more expensive are usually underated. Personally I think it is to hard to say anything by looking at the specs of a given amp. So I just buy good quality Class A or Class AB amplifiers.

There is a reason that Class D amplifiers are only built for sub amplifiers. Anyone care to guess why. They can be made for other things but you would not be ablle to afford it.

 

uh....amps have components in them. every single component that your signal passes through will have SOME effect on tone. this is why the hi-fi guys will talk for hours over what capacitors and resistors are used in a given amplifier. the same principles apply here.

the other issue is that, while most of the tone and EQ of your system comes from the head unit, and the distribution of that EQ to your speakers comes from the crossovers, the FEEL of your system comes from the power section, in this case the amplifier. the design of the amp, whether or not it employs negative feedback and how much, what circuitry it uses to ramp up your signal, etc all have an effect on the impact of your sound. listen to two amplifiers hooked up to the same system and you might notice that one is more "punchy" or hard-hitting while the other might sound loose or spongy.

i'd imagine most of you, in this instance, are looking for punch, but there are a wide variety of different circuit designs with different goals in mind. the response/feel of a system truly is a matter of personal taste.

and after all that, my point: if you're using a $49 amp to drive your speakers, they're not going to sound any better than if you were just driving them with a head unit. buy something better and you'll notice a difference.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JOMO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i disagre!!

a watt is NOT a watt, if anything dont go cheap on your amp!</TD></TR></TABLE>

a watt IS a watt. a definition of a watt is a unit measurement of power. i don't think you can hear differences between measurements can you? its the noise that's audible. of course you don't want to go cheap on your amp. thats why you buy higher quality amp that has high quality parts so the parts will actually take affect. a cheap xover isn't going to work as well, therefore sounding worse than a high quality xover. if you went from one amp to another and the second amp sounds better, then the amp you had before had a cheaper xover.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
amps can and will affect sq as much as h/u or crossover or eq or even speakers!</TD></TR></TABLE>
you're comparing apples and oranges. a crossover can be found on amps and if amps affect sound quality as much as xovers then the xovers are truely what makes the amp sound different. so the arguement of a "watt is not a watt" is pooped. EQ's are suppose to make the system sound different if you adjust it differently. speakers are what puts out the most THD (over 5%). thats why its more important to focus on the speakers (besides install) more than the amps.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
run some jl audio w3's on a rockwood '600 watt' amp and you'll see what i mean </TD></TR></TABLE>

cheaper brands don't always put out what they say they do. in reality, it'll put out about 200 watts or so (lets assume). if any other amp was to produce 200 real watts..then the watts from the 2 amps would be inaudible. the real difference is when the xover and other features do their parts.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by nsxxtreme &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SN is signal to noise ratio

</TD></TR></TABLE>

yea i know..i was poking fun at it. SN doesn't mean crap in amps as we all know it.

 

i think it definately matters what kind of amp you have. yeah sure, a watt is a watt, and blah blah blah, but all amps are built different, and some are just plain better than others (quality wise) just cause two different amps produce the same amount of wattage, doesnt mean they are gonna produce the same sound. also, they are all built different, some last longer than others, some heat-up (or even OVERheat) more than some, etc. etc. im not saying that more money = better quality, but for the most part, it does (IMO)

 

Looks like we have some Richard Clark wanna-bes in here....anyone want to claim the $10,000 .... j/k - we all know the test is bull....

To anyone who says your headunit has the most effect on the tone of your system, you are WRONG!!!! It's speakers my friends....get the one's you like, put them in the right spot with the right install, then worry about amps and heads.

I'd much rather have some high end speakers on a mid-level signal chain then some sony xplods (IMO low mid-end - no offence meant to those who run/like them) run off of an F1 status head/processors and some Sinfoni or Brax amps.

Think about it, speakers can only sound SO good.....install a good, solid amp (correctly - that's a big part of it), set the gains properly (often misunderstood) and I think you will find most amplifiers on the market that actually make their rated power will perform to your liking.

You have to ask yourself one thing when you start talking about the subtle differences in electronics (such as swapping out amps) - will you hear it while driving down the road? 9 times out of 10, you won't. Most cars (hondas especially) have noise floors SO high that it's impossible to really discern these small differences.

My opinion: Buy an amp that makes good power, has the features you want, and still lets you take your girlfriend (significant other - to be PC) out to eat once you are done.

Keep in mind that this car audio game is a law of diminishing returns....as you start to climb in price (and often price really doesn't mean a thing - it's more of a marketing ploy then anything) the differences shrink - often to the point of inaudibility in your average system.

listen with your ears, not your wallet or eyes...

 

good job rob..you just basically repeated what i said! j/k...


speakers....must get the ones you like......they put out the most distortion than any other components...get speakers...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Keep in mind that this car audio game is a law of diminishing returns....as you start to climb in price (and often price really doesn't mean a thing - it's more of a marketing ploy then anything) the differences shrink - often to the point of inaudibility in your average system.

listen with your ears, not your wallet or eyes...</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Has anyone heard the sinfoni? I saw the prices on ampman before, something like 2k for 50x2.

 

come on guys!!!!!

someone is gonna read this post, and think it ok to buy a rockwood, or a magnetics usa amp to run his speakers on, its just plain wrong!

a 40 watt fosgate punch is gonna sound better than a 200 watt pyramid that puts out 40 watts!

come on, amps make a huuuuuuuuuuge difference in sound quality, anyone who disagrees is wrong!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JOMO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> come on guys!!!!!

someone is gonna read this post, and think it ok to buy a rockwood, or a magnetics usa amp to run his speakers on, its just plain wrong!

a 40 watt fosgate punch is gonna sound better than a 200 watt pyramid that puts out 40 watts!

come on, amps make a huuuuuuuuuuge difference in sound quality, anyone who disagrees is wrong! </TD></TR></TABLE>

i don't see why they would get rockwood or anything like that after being mentioned over and over that high quality parts will make it sound better than cheaper quality parts.


of course the rockford is gonna sound better than pyramid, because it has much better xovers.

 

THEY WILL!

I guess its just me, or us rather, we believe the best amp you can get should be run, cheap amps have no place in a car if you want it to sound good, i say this, ive heard BUMPER subs(cheap ***) run on a good clean amp sound good, and jl's run on crap sound shitty, i really chatting foolishness, its late an im high, but you get the point!!!!!

DON'T BUY CHEAP AMPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
better to buy cheap wires, or a cheap car!

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JOMO &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> come on guys!!!!!

someone is gonna read this post, and think it ok to buy a rockwood, or a magnetics usa amp to run his speakers on, its just plain wrong!

a 40 watt fosgate punch is gonna sound better than a 200 watt pyramid that puts out 40 watts!

come on, amps make a huuuuuuuuuuge difference in sound quality, anyone who disagrees is wrong! </TD></TR></TABLE>

If someone reads this post, and comes to your suggested conclusion....they failed reading comprehension...check out my post:

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Think about it, speakers can only sound SO good.....install a good, solid amp (correctly - that's a big part of it), set the gains properly (often misunderstood) and I think you will find most amplifiers on the market that actually make their rated power will perform to your liking.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nowhere does Rockwood, Kenford, or any of the other flea market brands fit under the following descriptions:
1. good and solid
2. make their rated power

The $1 per watt for a class A/B amp is a good rule of thumb. I mean if it claims 2000W, but weighs 4 lbs, is chromed, accepts only an 8 ga wire and has a 25A fuse on the side, you GOTTA know it's a POS!!

A properly installed amp is not going to matter more then properly installed speakers.

There's a lot of talk about crossover circuits here....hell, some people swear up and down that Arc CXL amps have terrible crossovers in them, and that they sound terrible. Can your system faithfully reproduce these subtle differences? I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but my point is that buying a mid-line head and amp and some high end speakers is far better then cheap speakers and a high end amp....you will still have the crappy signature of the crappy speakers to deal with when all is said and done.

Based on what the thread starter first stated, it's apparent that we are limiting this discussion to components that are at least function properly and is worth your time buying....at least that was my impression.

 

rcurley, when are you going to install your system?

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by t0p_sh0tta &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">rcurley, when are you going to install your system? </TD></TR></TABLE>

Soon....very, very soon. I just bought a linear actuator so that I can remove my e-brake handle. That will make the way for a cutom console to house a few controls. We'll see how it goes.

Trust me...every day is painful waiting....it's been raining here, so I can lay down any paint on my brothers car either...that and waithing on the processors from ID has really delayed this whole project.

 

thanks guys for all the replies and the heated argument. i think i'm just going to buy a better amp for my W6 and components. but the question is which? could some one throw out some decent amps for me? i need 300-400w mono amp for the sub and 100x4 for the components and i have around 300 to spend

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Soon....very, very soon. I just bought a linear actuator so that I can remove my e-brake handle. That will make the way for a cutom console to house a few controls. We'll see how it goes.

Trust me...every day is painful waiting....it's been raining here, so I can lay down any paint on my brothers car either...that and waithing on the processors from ID has really delayed this whole project.</TD></TR></TABLE>

excuses excurse...just admit you're a lazy basstard when do you need the processors by? since ID is only 30 minutes away..i'll go down there and settle things my way

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rcurley55 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Soon....very, very soon. I just bought a linear actuator so that I can remove my e-brake handle. That will make the way for a cutom console to house a few controls. We'll see how it goes.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I have been waiting for you to install it for months I want to see lot's of pics of the horns going in. Maybe I can squeeze some in my teg. I don't know how I would drive my car though