I was watching the Speed TC and GT opener @ Sebring the other day (I know I am a miserable person for waiting this long) and was amazed by the driving of Hans Stuck. Going from 34th to 4th isnt too shabby. My question is: do those cars (he was driving McMillan's (sp?) red Bimmer from last year, now being tuned by PTG) have dog gears? All of his up-shifts were extremly fast and smooth and were done w/o the clutch. I wouldn't think those cars would be allowed such a radical gearbox but Im not sure. Does anyone know? Also, I saw a few times where he failed to double clutch or go through the gears, he would just go straight from 5th into 3rd (I saw him do it at T14.) But really, I dont care what he was doing inside the car, that guy was simply flying.

Also, good luck to PTG and their development the rest of the year. I have a feeling the M3's are going to own this year.

Yay! First post with the new speel cheque! Nice.

 

Well, that's Hans Stuck for ya. He's one of the best sports car drivers of his generation. He's done everything from DTM to F1, Le Mans, IMSA (with the Audi Quattros). He fantastic...especially in the rain.

He's my kind of driver. He drives anything he can get his hands on. He's enthusiastic. He has fun. What more could you want?

As for the dog gears...I dunno. I'd assume they are straight cut (is that what you mean by dog gears?)

Sorry, I'm no help. I'll shut up now.

 

Yeah Stuck is da man.

Not sure about the gears, but most likely. The GT M3s are allowed quite significant motor modifications, as they are allowed to run the same race spec inline 6 bmw motors they ran back in the AMLS series before bmw pulled the plug on the 6 cylinder cars in favor of the V8s. 450+ hp out of 3.2L (or 3.0?) NA is quite a feat. IMO the BMWs in GT are the best sounding cars by far. I remember hearing them live when they raced with the alms and the music they make is just awesome. *Exactly* what a racecar should sound.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Vantage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">He fantastic...especially in the rain.

As for the dog gears...I dunno. I'd assume they are straight cut (is that what you mean by dog gears?)

</TD></TR></TABLE>

The commentators made a few comments about his skills in the rain as severe rain clouds were threateing during the race.
From my understanding, dog and straight are the same thing. I honestly dont know too much about the subject so if someone can point me to where I can read about these kind of things that would be great.

All I know is I saw Hans shifting super fast (fast enough to do some serious damage to a "normal" tranny) w/o the clutch.

 

Dog leg is when it's in a:

2 4
/ |/ |
1 3 5

It's not a perfect H like in most cars. Straight cut gears are just that. Straight cut, and not at an angle. Whines like a supercharger!

Warren

 

I've only heard of dog-type gears in a marine lower unit, they have a pin that fits into a hole in the opposite gear, so there is positive engagement. Not sure how this would work with a gear ratio, it is used to go from not-engaged to engaged when shifting from neutral to fwd or vice versa. Different than straight-cut gears. I guess the dogs could force a standard or straight-cut gear into meshing with its counterpart.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GSRMatt &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I guess the dogs could force a standard or straight-cut gear into meshing with its counterpart. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thats exactly right. Real racing gearboxes (like the hewland) engage the gears with 'dogs' rather than synchros. In order to shift to have have to rev-match perfectly. Heavy trucks use (or used to, last time I drove one) dog type gearboxes too.

The M3s are allowed to use 6 speed gearboxes from either hewland or hollinger. I assume these are dog boxes. As far as I know hewland has never made any synchromesh gearboxes. GULP... the hewland H-shift (non-sequential) costs 7,700 to 9,100 pounds, depending on whether its the heavy duty model or not.

Joel


Modified by JoelG at 9:31 AM 4/10/2003

 

Thanks for beating me to the answer, JoelG - I was getting worried.

The "dogs" or dog rings (so named because they have a dog bone shaped profile) engage just before the gear would, and their ramped profile pulls the gears together. That's why they go "chunk" when engaged. Typical synchronizing rings do a similar thing by using friction to spin the shafts to something approximating similar rotational speeds.

The profile of the gear itself (helical - helix-shaped to be quiet for street cars - or straight cut like those in your LEGO set) is a different issue. Race 'boxes are straight cut for strength (more meat in the teeth) and because they don't impose side loads when engaged, as do helical gears.

Any Hewland product (not that I know for sure that is what these cars use) is going to use both 'dogs' and straight-cut gears.

As for Stuck? No question. I got to see him run the old TransAm Audi Quattro in the rain once. NO competition except for his sometimes teammate Walther Rohrl.

Kirk

 

Stuck is da man. I remember a few years back at Road Atlanta before the ALMS race they had the "Beetle Cup" race. For whatever reason, Hans had to start at the back of the pack, behind even the "non-pro" drivers that had been invited to run the series. What I witnessed was a clinic in "how to make your VW look like it has 2 engines when everyone else's has only one" as Hans absolutley devoured the entire field and went on to win the race by a big margine. He really is "the man."

 

thanks for the info, i've always been interested in the "dawg" tranny's.

and yes, hans stuck is a beast! i bet he could shift a dump truck that fast.

 

Yes thanks a lot guys for the info, its very helpful. I still have a lot to learn about trannys.

 

I have only driven a "dog ring" tranny at the Derek Daly Academy in their winged formula school cars but I can say the jump to clutchless shifting at speed was sooo cool. Some of the folks I attended with were accomplished racers and didn't take to it that well, I felt like a kid on Christmas morning with a new toy. Smooth, fast and precise...very cool. You can get a custom set for your Honda gearbox from Houseman for about $5,000 but that is a bit rich for me right now.

Hans Stuck is a really cool guy and a fabulous driver. His is a second generation racer as his father was an F1 pilot for Mercedes or Auto Union back in the '30s and '40s. "Stucky" has the right mix of talent and flair plus he has a great sense of humour which is a great trait in a high end driver that allows him not to take himself too seriously. Randy Pobst is also like that too. I have an Audi promotional video from when Stuck was driving for them in the late '80s that is really cool and he narrates much of it. Talking about passing Cougars in the rain on the outside of a turn "...is like Christmas and Birsday (german accent) all put together". Cool guy.

 

I have ridden with Stuck, Said, and Auberlen a few times in M3s and M5s (yeah, perks of the BMWCCA ) and they CAN DRIVE. Try drifting sideways in unison at 80 mph while carrying on a conversation with 3 people.

 

Hans . . . .

 

How does the quattro system like that kinda stuff??

 

It likes it about as much a rwd does and a whole lot more than a fwd system would.

(Ok, I already think I failed at my poor attempt at some humor.)

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">pulled the plug on the 6 cylinder cars in favor of the V8s. 450+ hp out of 3.2L (or 3.0?) </TD></TR></TABLE>

The M3 GTR V8's had the 4.4L M5 motor's in them ... to bad they couldn't run in the ALMS anymore... they would've kicked porsche's *** all the time... there's pics of the M3 GTR V8 street car and it's badd ***!... to bad there $250K

As for Hans , piloting the M3 is just awesome... i remember when they came to sears point for ALMS and all 4 M3's just stuck together through out the whole race taking all 4 pole positions in GT class... Han's is one quick guy!

 

That is from the uphill right hander at Lime Rock where some cars catch air and some blow over. There is head-on footage of this wheelie in the opener of that Audi tape. Wish I knew how to put that 12:00 tape on-line becasue you guys would like it and be harder core Stuck fans.

 

I still have a nice big poster of Stucky 'cresting' one of the hills at the Nurburgring in a CSL.

Much to my girlfriend's dismay...

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by siisgood00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">How does the quattro system like that kinda stuff??</TD></TR></TABLE>It liked it enough to beat the hell out of everyone and get itself banned from the SCCA and IMSA at that time. AWD is still not allowed in Trans Am. AWD has more of an advantage over RWD than what RWD has over FWD.

 

Sorry to bring this one back, but this guy amazed me even more during the Speed GT race @ Mosport. Stuck is the man, but Marks is the LUCKIEST man. I want Stuck to be my godfather! Just hearing him talk you can tell he is one of the greats. Im sure the PTG team isnt too happy, but hopefully they will be able to tweak the car some before Lime Rock which will be televised next weekend.

On a side note, keep an eye out for Foo and his stopping power a la' Cobalt.

 

The PTG cars seemed to be at an obvious power disadvantage at Mosport. Watching the RS6 drive away from them was pretty amazing though...

To the modern day TransAm series...

 

What would the M3 GTR fans say if Porsche was allowed to use the 996TT motor in their racecars? I wonder if they would throw just as big a fit as the Porsche teams did when BMW dropped the 4.4 into the M3.
-Adam

 

Its not like BMW was suddenly dominating over everyone else.

Porsche was up front for so long, and when BMW used a 4.0L (not 4.4L) in the M3, while still carrying more weight than the 911, and was suddenly more competitive (d'uh) the porsche crowd threw a fit. I thought the mid-season rule change was just absurd and childish.

 

IIRC one of the key points for the protesters and rulemakers was that an M5 powered M3 was not in production at the time (unlike a 911 with a turbo, in the same shell as the nonturbo.) This is the age-old problem of "homologation"... BMW would need to make a certain number of street versions available by a certain date, and they couldn't, so that was part of how the V8 M3 racecar was banned. Truly a shame IMHO, because it was an awesome package.

Jon