As many of you know, I recently bought a set of Kumho Ecsta V700s (225-45-15) to replace my trusty Hoosiers. Following are my findings after the Carolina Motorsports Park ECHC race.

First, they don't feel as good as the Hoosiers. Turn-in is slower, feedback at the wheel is lessened, and they feel somewhat vague at the limit. They reminded me of autocrossing my Mom's MR2 Spyder on its stock tires...grippy but not real communicative.

Second, the ultimate grip is slightly less. My speeds through T10 ("the kink") were at least 5mph slower than with Hoosiers. With Hoosiers, I always KNEW I could do that turn flat, without a lift. With the Kumhos I never had that confidence.

Third, they're great rain tires. We didn't have monsoon-style standing water, but did have a good amount of water on track. Even shaved like mine are, they were amazing in the wet. Those of you looking for cheap rain tires might consider them.

Fourth, they're not as wide as the same-size Hoosier. The difference is significant, even visible to the naked eye. This may explain the reduced grip.

Fifth, they did NOT go away on me towards the end of the race...at least, they didn't go away any worse than other tires I've used. That said, I consider myself a smooth driver who is pretty easy on equipment, so your mileage may vary.

Finally, tire wear was good. Very even once I set the pressures down from the pressures I used with Hoosiers. I was looking for roughly 40psi hot with Hoosiers, and was told that I should target 36 hot with the Kumhos. Once I got that sorted out the tires behaved very well...just less grip.

It should be noted that I came to the track this past weekend with a VERY different car. New welded cage, new limited slip. So my lap times were affected by driver confidence. That said...I think the Hoosiers are faster in the dry. Whether or not they're worth the substantial price difference is up to you...how bad do you want to win?

 

Karl - I had bumped my hot pressures down to 34 psi later in the weekend. 28f/30r cold worked for me. Will be doing more "testing" at the beaver (heh, he said beaver) this weekend with Evan. I wish i hadnt been worrying so much about my **** being busted all weekend because then i always drive like **** if i am not sure if the damn thing is going to fall apart on me.

I need to start a setup log for this bucket.

Girlfriend taking tire pressures in pit is cool

 

34 cold?? I don't get it, just seems like the tire would get chewed up on the outside.. or roll off the wheel..

Karl, like I said, i loved the tires last year, just "fell apart" on me like they did w/ Chad and Robert this weekend.. Cost more to replace the tires then to buy hoosiers..

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Honda318dx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Karl, like I said, i loved the tires last year, just "fell apart" on me like they did w/ Chad and Robert this weekend.. Cost more to replace the tires then to buy hoosiers..</TD></TR></TABLE>

They failed Robert huh? I hadn't heard this.
If I remember right, he was a fan last year.

Of course he has a new setup and appears to be significantly faster now. Maybe thats the whole deal? They're OK unless you really push them hard? I dunno.
They held up for Karl this weekend, but Karl's lap times were down a good bit from what hes done there in the past. Maybe when he turns it up a notch they'll fail him too?

All I know is if they come apart or grease up on Karl, thats the final word. Karl is sometimes not the most aggressive driver in the world, but he is about the smoothest guy I've ever seen. He can also be damned fast when he wants to be.
So, if Karl can destroy them, they are officially crap.

Once again, word on these tires around club racing paddocks is that you get what you pay for with them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So, if Karl can destroy them, they are officially crap.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

And further down the sprial of perpetually busted **** we go........

RJ - who think his master cylinder took a dump because Karl looked in his engine bay

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Of course he has a new setup and appears to be significantly faster now. Maybe thats the whole deal? They're OK unless you really push them hard? I dunno.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Not intending to brag, but my Kumhos held together fine, wore great, and still have more time I can shave off while running them.

FYI, Robert is running essentially the same setup that I am. Time is not the issue, IMO.

 

I ran 32psi in my crx which is a little lighter and liked it so 34-36 sounds right for the tegs.

 

I have to concur with Jason on the Kumhos. I ran them all weekend......although I did have 2 sets, practice and race. The practice set have worn very well. Inside wore accordingly (negative camber), no chunking. There lots of life left on them. I do consider myself a fairly agressive driver and use the car as it should be used (sorry Scott), but not to the extent of abuse. The race set is also in good shape probably alittle more worn than the practice set.........intensity I imagine has caused this, but my deep down gut feeling is the Hoosiers are probably faster and more sure footed......but one of the main reasons for everyones disgust for the Kumho's was premature tire wear, I believe that driving style and setup in ones car has proven that to be the culprit..........just my humble opinion....

 

I ran the Kumhos last year and again this year. But I ran the Victor Racers which I was told by Tire Rack is a bit more sticky. In any event I do not baby them (but don't abuse them either) and have been and continue to be quite pleased with them. Now, I haven't run Hoosiers so no comparison can be made. I do know because I saw it, that a Hoosier 225 is at least an inch wider than a Kumho 225. Thats a BUNCH!! And in my mind accounts for some of the better handling that they give.

I've run the Toyo RA1 with my Eagle Talon in years past and found that to be a pretty long lasting tire too. If they could only be found forthe Kumho price.......

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Catch 22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
They failed Robert huh? I hadn't heard this.
If I remember right, he was a fan last year.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Scott, you are correct... I WAS a big fan... the only thing I can figure is that in certain situations (setups/driving style) they last and last, and wear evenly.... and in other situations they go all to hell.
Here's a pic after Sunday's race... These tires were brand new on Friday.

Appears that it's not a camber issue... wear is even all the way across... and the tire pressures were the same I used on another set of tires(Khumo Ecstas) with the exact same suspension setup a few weeks ago.. which wore perfectly... I have no idea why this happened. Just out of curiousity, has anybody ever had a set of 205/50 Ecsta's go bad? I haven't seen this yet.
Copy and paste this link into your browser to see the picture in Larger Full detail:
http://www.imagestation.com/pi...g.jpg

 

My tires last year..
Outside edge


Inside


Hum.........

 

chad here....
the ecst 700v's suck nuts...
after really only one day.....cause i didn't put in a full say on saturday....

 

It's like the rubber isn't bound to the cords the way it should be... it just peels away. And mine were shaved and Heat-Cycled by TireRack. I don't understand it... not chunking.. the rubber just seperates from the tire... hmm... I wonder if Kumho is selling re-treads to us..LOL
I WAS all for these tires because of the fact that they were sooo much cheaper than everything else.. even the Toyos... and they've always been good for me in the past. But, they aren't gonna be the cheapest way out if I have to buy two sets cause the first ones fall apart. I think I'll have to go ahead and look into the Toyos... I just need a good cheap price. Corey, did you have your Toyos Shaved or Heat cycled?



Modified by XR4racer at 2:53 PM 4/10/2003

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by XR4racer &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">It's like the rubber isn't bound to the cords the way it should be... it just peels away. And mine were shaved and Heat-Cycled by TireRack. I don't understand it... not chunking.. the rubber just seperates from the tire... hmm... I wonder if Kumho is selling re-treads to us..LOL</TD></TR></TABLE>

****, i'd send 'em back and demand a new set at 50% off. Seriously.

 

Very shortly after kumho first hit the market i had that happen to me. It sucked.

I called and politely bitched, and I got 2 tires for next to nothing to replace the 2 that came apart. I sincerely doubt they still do this, but it is worth a try. I think it must be some flaw in their quality control or something.....

I hate kumhos, so after those 6 tires gave up, I never bought any more, so I don't know how often crappy ones come around or what.

I love to race on hoosiers, and hpde on toyos. Kumhos and I just don't get along.

 

maybe it's a silly question, but what about the old victoracers? are they discontinued? I don't recall those ever coming apart like that...

 

The old victoracers were what came apart on me....i was pondering trying the new design, but will not unless they are free, due to what is happening to others.

 

Wow! For the record, my Kumhos have never done anything crazy like Roberts and Coreys. They really don't like pressures over 40 hot and I had some wear really fast when I ran too high a pressure my first time on the new Kumhos. My problems could definitely be more setup related though as others have told me. Especially now that I have found that almost no one runs 950# springs up front and 800# out back but rather the other way around. Franza amazes me BTW. I think he only runs 205mm Ecstas and from Lowes onward last year is damn fast. He is doing something right. I just don't know what it is. Jason would you share spring rates, camber settings etc?

 

Here is an EV700 I ate at TGP. I won't pass judgment on this tyre since it was ran on an SSB car in at least one race weekend then sat in the backyard for 1.5 years.

One thing is for sure, Kumhos hate:

A) Understeer
B) Being over driven
C) Too much pressure

Any combination of the above is even worse for them.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SPiFF &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">One thing is for sure, Kumhos hate:
A) Understeer
B) Being over driven
C) Too much pressure
Any combination of the above is even worse for them.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
That seems to sum it up pretty well.

 

I've NEVER seen a Hoosier or a Toyo that looked like all the Kumho pictures posted in this thread.

You get what you pay for. There is no magical cheap, sticky, durable, fast as hell, long wearing R compound tire. You can pick one, maybe two of the above, but you can't have them all.

And I'll reiterate one more time for all the Hoosier haters here. ChrisB and I ran the same amount of races last year in the same car (except mine was heavier). I ran Hoosiers, he ran Kumho ECSTAs. While the Hoosier is significantly more expensive I still spent less for the year because I used fewer tires. Corey's Kumho usage was even more dramatic than Chris's.

Also, there was an issue a few years ago with the quality control on the V700s. A bunch of top autocrossers raised a stink because they showed up at Topeka with brand new tires that turned out to be crap (anyone remember that?).

These tires might be sesitive to driver style and car set-up, but I think history and evidence shows that Kumho has a serious quality control issue.
You guys can keep spending your money on these things if you want. I certainly won't.

Scott who ran the old BFG R1s for 3 years and has run Hoosiers for 5 years and has NEVER had a tire come apart like these.

 

I've heard good things about the Michelin Pilot Sport cup tires - although they have a very high initial cost they are not as sticky as the hoosier but wear pretty damn well.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...t+Cup

I may try them later this year.

 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SJR &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe it's a silly question, but what about the old victoracers? are they discontinued? I don't recall those ever coming apart like that...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use them. They are not discontinued - and will not be for some time (according to Kumho). I've never had them come apart and I've never seen them come apart on any cars I know. I have only -1.25* camber in front on a McP strut car that weighs 2500lbs, so I should be eating outside edges, but the Kumho seems to hold up well. Definetely run them shaved and cycle them properly. Makes a HUGE difference in tire life and performance.

 

so would anyone reccomend these v700 as good beginner tires? right now i have a set of 712s on. money really isnt an issue right now, but i dont want to get the high dollar set of tires when im not putting them to the test.

 

I have NEVER had a problem w/ the Victoracers, at all.. My Toyos were only shaved to 6/32nds, I think.. Not heat cycled.. So far, have about 550 track miles on them, and can probably get 2 more weekends out of them.. Tell me thats not worth the money.. Oh yea, they are getting faster too..