I'm confused once again. I've done the search and I've read all the header topics but a lot of them seem to be vague. I'm planning on getting Toda Spec Bs, the whole valvetrain upgrade and a 2.5 cat. Please help the confused.

1.) Is it a safe assumption that the Toda 4-2-1 header will give me better better gains than the Spoon since I will be using cams made by Toda?

2.) Will the opposite be the same as well? Will the Spoon header work better than the Toda header if I were to use Spoon cams?

3.) Will the multi-piece design of the Toda Header put it at a disadvantage when compared to the the one piece Spoon Header?

 

Hey CPR,

Before you go spending all that money and still be confused check out SMS headers. RstoR has one on his car and its awesome.

Boba- whos seen the quality and its that GOOD!

 

CPR-

Like yourself, I plan to install a Toda valvetrain in addition to cams/gears. I recently (with the help of Willard) installed my Toda header with Carsound cat and let me say I am very impressed with the midrange gains. My R pulls much harder and feels great. I should be installing Spec B's in about a month or so. Hopefully I'll have good results and of course, I'll be sure to post them

 

I have the JDM Mugen 4-1 on my car right now (dynoed 196 SAE whp) and the Spoon 4-2-1 sitting on my living room floor.

The CNC flange on the Mugen is of much better quality than the Spoon which appears cast.

The Spoon and Mugen have similar weld quality. But the Spoon is ported.

The Spoon is scratched/shitty finish on the primaries where it has been mandrel bent. The Mugen again has a better finish quality.

I'm switching to the Spoon and will be testing it over the next several months. I'm sure that the 4-2-1 layout will nicely complement the increased midrange characteristics of the Spec B's).

If you can look at a Toda (I've never seen one in person) - use the above comparisons as a guide.

 

I posted some pics when it arrived a few weeks ago. IM me if you need them as I deleted them from my server.


[Modified by TypeRJason, 1:57 PM 6/20/2001]

 

I'm still waiting for my spoon header...its been almost two months. I will let you know about hp gains when I recieve it. I think that both headers would do well with spec b's, but the toda may have the edge since it should be tuned for todas own cams.

 

That's assuming you're using a stock head......

 

ok screw it...i'm going with the toda header. I would think that the performance from the same design (4-2-1) header and from 2 very highly reputable companies will be pretty much the same. Unless somebody else has a new opinion...

CPR
who's read all the third person lines and never though he would actually do it himself.
who is not really gonna screw it and get the toda.
who posted saying he was going to get the toda just to bump up his question


[Modified by CPR, 8:10 PM 6/20/2001]


[Modified by CPR, 8:11 PM 6/20/2001]

 

while they are both called 4-2-1 designs, they could not be further apart in actual construction. I really don't know which is the ultimate setup. My guess is the Toda header has bigger piping sizes and may provide more top end power. But the Spoon has anti-reversion chambers and may have better mid range based on its design and piping size. I could be wrong on this and I don't think anyone really knows until some serious testing and comparisons are done, but I wouldn't hold you breath to see that. My bud TodaSi went from a Mugen 4-1 JDM to a Toda 4-2-1 header and it kind of looks like he gained top end and my have lost a bit of mid range looking at his dyno charts. He went from Spec B's to C's at the same time, but looking at the chart from 3000-7300 (his vtec x-over point is 7300) is where the header difference could be isolated as the spec b's and c's have the same pri. and sec. lobes. hth.

J.

 

Where are the anti-reversion chambers on the spoon header? After studying the construction of the spoon header for a while I can't figure out where these things are. Are you referring to the 2" lengths of piping at the end of the primaries? I don't believe anyone who has seen these could honestly call these anything more then sleeves used to seal the primaries and secondaries.

Regards,



[Modified by BABY NSX, 9:11 PM 6/20/2001]

 

Are you sure that's not giving them too much credit?