Hopefully this will help some people.

Here is the latest (AFAIK) list of FIA homologated seats:

http://www.fia.com/regle/Reg_tec/lis...oved_seats.pdf

The list also mentions with which type of support they were homologated, it seems that it is either laterall or bottom mount, it has no mention of seat back brace at all (I haven't read every line so I could be wrong)

I believe seeing your particular seat on there should be enough to show that it was designed to work and homologated (tested and approved) without a back brace.

Also keep in mind that if you're seat was homologated to work with a lateral mount (side mounts i believe) and you have it mounted via the bottom of the seat (or vice versa) you are on your own and your seat is no longer FIA homologated.

Once again this is my understanding of it after reading about FIA homologations and such, please correct me if you KNOW otherwise.

Matt

 

The 2003 NASA GCR states:

15.5.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of a crash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objects should be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver in a high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it is recommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this, as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception shall be made for those seats that the manufacturer specifies that no seatback brace should be used, and carries and FIA approval rating 8855-1999 that certifies the seat for use without a seatback brace. (italics mine, bad grammar their's)

Since there is one seat on the FIA 8855-1999 list that requires a "Frontal, bottom and <U>dorsal</U> support", I guess a picky tech could ask to see proof yours wasn't it. Probably not a bad idea to print the list and have a copy in your papers. Interesting that some were tested with "lateral supports", some with "bottom supports", and some with "Lateral and bottom supports"


Just for fun, you can find standard 8855-1999 here:

http://www.fia.com/regle/REG_TEC/Normes/normes-a.htm

There's an english translation about halfway down the document.

 

yeah, that link was given to nasa as well. the main point aobut nasa having trouble accepting even the FIA approved seats was their wording of the rule that both FIA cert AND a written document from manufacturer stating a SBB should not be used (which is impossible to get) must be obtained. but on the other side, even if the document wasnt needed, youd have to prove it was mounted correctly according to FIA cert, and there is another document somewhere in their website describing it all, but i dont have time ot find it at the moment. but that is also a bit vague and worth despute. but it does say stock railings can/should be used.

last i checked before i left for china after getting off the phone with jerry is that he realizes he needs to update the current rule. not sure how important it is tho and how soon it will come about.

 

But the list shows that the manufacturer submits the seat for FIA certification stating the support type to be used. If they say that bottom or lateral supports should be used and the seat is certified by FIA's standard, that pretty much precludes the use of a back brace, since the seat wasn't tested with one. Sounds like someone at NASA just doesn't want to change their mind.

 

geezer, one would think thats the logical message that would satisfy the rule, but you MUST have wording that a SBB should NOT be used, in combination with whatever appropriate method of attachment the seat is designed for. obviously we both see the folly in this. when i asked jerry about it, he said he was following suit with SCCA because they demanded this and he is forced to comply with SCCA rules to allow more racers into NASA basically, although that doesnt completely follow the rest of their actions anyway, but he also didnt realize SCCA CHANGED their ruling from someone else pointing out this problem in logic. so thats why he said he'll have to go back and 'look into things'. please let me know when theres any hint of change. when i get back in july, i want to try to race in hyperfest, hopefully my car can be legal then... at least i got my logbook tho.

 

Tyson, have you checked the rule book (CCR) in the last month or so. I am pretty sure that the SBB section has been changed.

 

can you or someone else check online CCR for me and post the present wording? i dont have acrobat reader at my present computer. thanks.

 

Actually, I think that while it has been updated, the effect is the same. In other words, I guess I am wrong. The rules still ask for the mfg to say that a SSB shouldn't be used. Here is the section.

15.5.22 Seat Back Support
A seatback support must be made to hold the seat from going back in the event of acrash. A plate should be used to distribute the load. No bolts, corners, or sharp objectsshould be placed is such a manner that could lead to a possible puncture of the driver ina high impact crash. Proper design and installation is crucial to safety and it isrecommend that the driver employ the services of a professional race car builder for this, as well as all other vehicle safety items. An exception shall be made for those seats that the manufacturer specifies that no seatback brace should be used, and carries and FIA approval rating 8855-1999 that certifies the seat for use without a seatback brace.

 

no, this is the same wording that jerry and i had discussion over and has not yet been changed since the first of march before i left.