Okay guys, I bought my WRX in late Sept of '02. It's been crappy weather up until now here in the Midwest. Thankfully, AutoX season has finally began!

Keep in mind this is the first time I've pushed my WRX close to the limits of handling. I have AutoX'd for awhile (this will be the start of my 4th season). I AutoX'd a '00 ITR before this and I still do AutoX my Civic hybrid...which moves nicely!

Anyway, excuses withheld...I got my *** kicked. I raced in D Stock and unfortunately there was a Nat'l level guy that just got a new Mazdaspeed Protege. He beat me by about 1.5 seconds!!! His co-driver (never heard of the guy) got me by about .5 second. This was a points event and it was upsetting, but what can you do. Even though I lost my times were quiet competitive. My best time was a 39.6XX and FTD was in the 37.XX range. I did end up beating some cars in better classes, so I don't think I did all that bad.

I would like some feedback...

1) Do you honestly think the Mazdaspeed Protege should be faster than the WRX at an AutoX (given equal drivers)? I know the WRX is MUCH faster in the straights, but just looking for honest feedback
2) I think while racing my WRX for the first time I did notice the boost lag being a problem in some situations. I was off boost in situations where I really wanted it.

BTW, here's a cool pic from one of the photographers there! Look closely. I gotta order this one.


http://public.fotki.com/jdoctor/2003.../dsc_4994.html
Thanks for the feedback.

-Todd


[Modified by Yellow Dragon, 5:57 PM 3/31/2003]

 

'03' really???

 

EDITED...the car is a '03, but bought it in '02.

 

The Subie is heavier. by a lot.

 

At least racing in stock class will help you to keep the car stock.

 

I drove a friend's WRX once and noticed:
1) It bogs below 3k.
2) It understeers badly.

Solution:
1) LFB (left foot brake) to keep the boost up.
2) Up the camber in front (and/or lose in the rear), toe out the front and rear, stiffen the rear shocks, and LFB.
3) One guy here spins all 4 wheels on launch to keep from bogging.

The MSP has a Torsen LSD and is basically a STS/STX car (Protege) stock. I got a ride in an MP3 (older sister) once and it can seriously fly through the slaloms. They handle extremely well stock. WRXs seem to have soft springs.

-al

 

1) I always find that questions like "Is car A better then car B given equal drivers?" are really a incomplete question because there are so many other variables that would give one car an advantage over another (Course design, surface quality, etc..) that you can't really give an answer.

2) I don't know what to say about the boost lag other then yes, it's a problem.

 

yeah i was going to say that protege's have become huge at autoxing events, they handle very well and they are pretty light. And with the edition of the mazdaspeed it just gets better.i read in car and driver that the only problem with the mazda is that the hose that connects to the intercooler breaks off and the car died on them twice two different cars too. the W is still a sick car though

 

what tires are you on? that could make a huge difference.
The WRX is one of the top DS contenders, so its no slouch.

the wrx has a pretty substantial learning curve to drive. The 3 cats (with one before the turbo) kill your spool time, so you are going to have to get on the gas extremely early and use LFB too.
When I autoX, i am right back on the gas as soon as i let off the brakes, even when I dont need the power, because by the time the turbo spools you will need the power.

 

The guy is kicking my tail left and right! I'll catch him sooner or later heh.

Haven't seen the new proteges in action yet. From the performance of the previous model, they are definately a contender - lighter and nimble around the twisties. Reminds me of those Neons for some reason, you dont think they're competitive until you see them in action. LFB will help rotate the car and alleviate some understeer. That should allow you to carry more speed and eliminate boost lag on corner exit.

Le - who is slowly improving thanks to allen's driving tips

 

I autocross a WRX in Stock, so I have a little bit of experience in the matter... The car likes to have lots of pressure at the rear. I run 45f/57r on 225/50/16 Kumho EV700s. It works, I swear. It likes to be chucked and flung at corners. It likes all the camber it can get at the front, and toe out at the rear. I currently run 1/8" toe out rear. It does NOT like to enter corners too hot; this sets up big understeer. It does like it if you can give it a little jerk to unbolt the back end, and then power through corners. You kindof... turn in soft to establish cornering grip at the front end, and then can jerk it a bit to make the back end scoot. As Evan said, with practice, you can basically get onto the gas as soon as you come off the brakes. The AWD grip off the corner and turbo lag means you can really have a lot of throttle down. Left foot braking+heavy car+late braking means you can heat up brakes a good bit. Cobalt GT-Sport pads and good fluid are a very effective solution to this. In stock form, the biggest thing is figuring out how to make the car rotate (it can be done) and when/where you can shuck the car to make it fastest. It's a blast to drive this way though You didn't mention what tires you're on. If you're on stock rubber... oof. They're horrible at full tread if you've noticed, and get a little better when the tread goes down. Until then, they squirm more than a pig in a heated butter bath. You can go reasonably fast on them, and learning how to do so will make you really fast on any good tire. They exacerbate the premature ABS tendencies of the car, and if you're doing a lot of runs in close proximity to one another, they will overheat. Spray them down with a water bottle, and that will return grip to them. 225/50 Kumhos fit fine on the stock wheels and offer pretty good life. I got 110 or so runs out of mine. I tend to be tire friendly though. 215/40 Hoosiers really wake up the transient response, and don't have the slightly lazy turn-in of the new Kumhos. However, their lifespan is VERY short on the WRX, and are only necessary if you're gunning for that last smidges of time at a National. Feel free to shoot me any questions you have, I'd be more than happy to help.

PS- it IS a very different driving style from an ITR or any Integra... takes a little bit of adjusting to figure out how to make the car haul, but it doesn't do anything permanent to your driving Just teaches adaptability. I haven't had any issue hopping into Integras and going fast after getting out of the WRX.

 

The Mazda was designed to handle. The skidpad and slalom numbers are much higher that the Subaru. With some good tires and suspension mods the subaru should be faster. This is all in theory because there are just way too many variables.

 

The MSPs are very fast. There's one in my region driven by a "novice" and he has trophied 1st every event so far. Driver skill or car? or both? That car moved very quickly through the course, either way.

 

In my region, if there were 6 drivers, 5 of them stink.
I'm not sure if it's a first year "Thanks Subaru for the one year membership" novice thing, or the car.

 

Would similar tire pressure balance work with the stock RE92s?

Yeah...stock RE92s with only 6k miles on them (mostly winter/cold/snow/rain weather). The premature ABS bothered me quite a bit. I was near the top of 2nd and the pavement elevation changed (shitty parking lot) and I slowed for the next turn. The ABS came on and I wasn't setup well for the next turn. This happened to me 2 time of my 5 runs.

You know I totally agree with you there. I'm quite confident I could hop in my buddy's ITR and tear up the course as if I still owned mine. I will have to start the LFB method. This will definately be a learning experience for me. I never felt the need to LFB with my ITR. I could match revs pretty well and just didn't think I had to do it.

Thanks for everyones' suggestions/opinions etc. I do have a Q for some of you. This was a points event and one of you said the MSP shouldn't have been in DS and should've been classed in STS/STX because of the print run so far. Should I appeal the race or just take my whoopen and lick my wounds until another day?

-Todd

 

You're on stock Re92? Those are horrible. You can run way higher pressures in back also on them to induce oversteer.

You must've misread my comment. I've got some bitterness about the MP3 being classed in stock since it comes from the factory with STS type mods included (springs, sway bars, exhaust, tokico shocks, strut bar, 17" rims) in low production numbers. The MSP (MP3 + turbo + LSD + ABS) is classed in Dstock. Don't protest and look like a weenie.

Was the MSP on race tires? The good news is that you can most assuredly lower your times just by getting Azenis if you're in a street tire PAXed class or V700s if you're not. If you still lose, then start shopping for mods...

Oh, you might want to get a harness to hold you in place for LFBing. Can't use your left leg to brace yourself anymore.

-al

 

When I was autocrossing my WRX, I disconnected the front sway bar. Seemed to help a bit.

 

if you were on stock RE92s and you only lost by 1.5sec then you drove great!
get some real rubber and you will hand that zoom-zoom P.O.S its ***

 

Agreed. R-Compound will generally give you 2 seconds over the RE92s on a 60 second course. So if you had them, it would have been close.

--kC

 

Thanks for the compliment. I will try to get him next time.

 

Yes. 45f works for me on RE92s. I ran on street tires once recently, and my car was in winter mode, zero toe all around at the time. I left the fronts where they were, and kept jacking up the rear pressures. I had something like 70 pounds in them by the time I was done. I'd start at say 50-55 and work up until you get the car rotating how you want it to on the stock tires. The course I was on didn't have any really quick transitions to upset the big pressure tires in the back, just lots of sweepers, so I was trying to make the back end skate around turns under throttle.

It helps if you do most of your braking in a straight line, and if you roll onto the pedal. If you hit the pedal, it'll trip the ABS pretty quickly. If you roll into it, and build grip on the front crappy stock tires, it's better. Braking in a straight line will help keep you off the ABS when the inside rear picks up off the ground and locks.

I do know a number of fast WRX drivers that don't left foot brake. For me, I became more comfortable with it pretty quickly. I left foot brake in FWD cars too, though it tends to beat on pads.

I think you're out of luck on this count. SCCA already classed the car in DS; protesting it being there at an event wouldn't have any effect on that, to my knowledge. Just go out and return the whoopin'!

 

Yellow Dragon, I was at that event, which wrx where you?

 

The only blue one racing (there was 1 other but he was a spectator )

Click http://public.fotki.com/jdoctor/2003.../dsc_4994.html

Did you race? What do you have?

 

the last event... scoobies were handled

Class: STREET TOURING X --------------------------------------------------------
1t 13/STX SLAPSMAK 00 ACUR INTEGRA > 63.541 <
TIMES: 1) 72.287 2) 68.668 3) 65.373 4) 63.541
5) 63.831 6) 64.025

2t 19/STX SCOTT STRICKLAND, BUCC 02 SUBA WRX > 64.305 <
TIMES: 1) 76.188( 1) 2) 65.560 3) 64.492 4) 64.326
5) 66.253 O/C 6) 64.305

3. 3/STX JOHN DAVIES, NOV 02 SUBA WRX > 65.072 <
TIMES: 1) 71.261 2) 65.648 3) 65.072 4) 68.530( 1)
5) 67.990( 1) 6) 68.218

4. 73/STX RYAN KLIER 02 SUBA WRX > 66.710 <
TIMES: 1) 73.182( 1) 2) 71.030( 1) 3) 71.190 O/C 4) 66.710
5) 68.191( 1) 6) 67.019

 

The thing that makes me laugh:
" I know the WRX is MUCH faster in the straights"
Um, what makes you think that? Have you driven the turbo Protege?
Holeshot aside, they are really damn close.


[Modified by madhatter, 12:49 PM 4/2/2003]