Ok another one of my friends is seriously considering selling his old 76 Stingray Corvette and building a Factory Five Racing Cobra. He has no track experience at all and has only been the drag strip once, but he has his mind set on building the ultimate street/track car and the FFR Cobra is the only thing he is looking at. He is also only 20 years old and in college and thinks that this can actually be his daily driver. The thing is his dad is behind him and I don't doubt they could do it and if done correctly it would be a good car, but since he won't listen to me I would like to hear any of the opinions you guys have.

My main thing is that he is young and trying to build this car now is going to take up alot of his time when he could be getting alot of track experience in something much cheaper. Also since he has no track experience starting off with a car of this caliber is sort of like walking before you can crawl (or however the saying goes) if you ask me.

 

If he does this consider $25,000 lost immediately, because a complete novice will stuff it somewhere in short order.

Thats all you need to know.

 

Too fast for a first track car. Would be a fun car to have no doubt, but hardly a daily driver.

Mike

 

For a knowledgeable racer/enthusiast: awesome car for the $$$, very reliable and ***** fast on a road course.

For a newbie and/or daily driver: uncomfortable, possibly unreliable, and potentially quite dangerous.

For anyone: sexy, fun to drive, a great bang-for-the-buck. Possibly the best "second car" or "weekend toy" I can think of.

All IMHO, hope that helps...

Jon

 

You mean something like this:




This was my boss' car for a while. He and a few of my co-workers built it and then sold it. LOT of fun...

First off, they did it cheap (302 out of '89 Mustang, rear suspension from Mustang, 15" wheels, excellent but cheap paint job...) and it cost them about $25,000. Second, it took my boss close to 10 months to build it and he worked on it EVERY day. Is your friend going to build it or buy it? (A turn-key will cost a LOT more.) Does he have that kind of dedication? The number of FF cobras kits out there that haven't seen pavement are a significant majority to those who have.

Second, all the comments above. It's incredibly impratical for any kind of daily driving (as stiff as a racecar, no top so you get wet..., in above car, no power steering, no power brakes, heater is in passenger wheel well..., no stereo, etc.). And very dangerous for an aggressive person without any track experience. You can get that thing sideways VERY quickly.

Andy - who absolutely loved the car but is humbled by how much work and dedication it takes.

 

A buddy of mine just built a FFC as a weekend toy. He purchased the track version (full cage instead of simple rollbar).

Here are a few things we noticed when building:
1. There are design flaws in the cage. Mainly, a lack of protection behind your **** (rear wheel could get puched into your back). He had Piper Motorsports perform some simple changes to make it a much better/safer cage.

2. It takes a hella long time to do properly. Tom, the owner, spent over a year, working a few nights a week and quite a few full weekends (he also races SRX-7, Spec Miata, and co-owns a few rental race cars).

3. It costs a bunch to make it a really nice car. He used quite a few new parts that could have been used. But in the end, the car is much prettier, much more reliable, etc.

4. As noted, the car is pretty darn fast - especially if you opt for a built motor. Way too fast for a track noob.

5. Tom has a 5 car garage, a lift, a 100 gallon air tank/compressor, more tools than many professional mechanics, and a very understanding wife.

 

Does anyone have a lap-time comparison for this car? I was somehow under the impression that they weren't as god-awful fast as everyone's making them out to be.

My problem would be more with taking a "racecar" and trying to daily drive it. I doubt anything setup for the track would be very comfortable (or safe) on a daily basis.

 

This is my next project, I've been putting money into an account for a while now. It will be a fourth car for sunny Sundays.

With that said, it is not a car for the timid or inexperienced. Even with a mild 302 it will be too much for most mere mortals.

 

We built one of the FFR Spec racer's last year. On one hand it's a total POS, but then you consider what it costs for that much car it's not so bad. Plan to have huge forearms from installing the 1000's of rivets, the instructions are almost useless, and some fabrication will be required. We had a former TA driver and AS champion setup and drive the car and the end result was just under 2 seconds faster than a Spec Miata. A long horsepower track would increase the margin some but after about 120mph the body wants to take flight. Enjoy the ride

 

They aren't super-insane-fast - they are similar speed to ITS or AS cars.

 

So I take it only being 2 seconds faster than a spec miata doesn't exactly make it the end all track car correct?

What I'm trying to get across to him (if he would listen) is that there are much better alternatives for a 20 year old student wishing to get into racing. Oh and he plans to build it himself.

 

good advise, i've been racing in HPDE's for a few years now, not long ago i got my hands on a factory five car. quite fast, but if you get ambitious with the right foot, be prepaired to drive out what would be the side window.

cliff notes : it's a great car, but likes to wag it's tail more then a happy golden retriver

-Scary

 

IIRC the "spec racecar" versions do 1:25-26 at Summit Point in capable hands. That is right around E Production times and ITS times. Not sure about A-Sedan, though.

Jon

 

And how do ITS/AS lap times compare to those of say Speed Touring car? I was looking into spec miata times and it seems that at VIR touring car (Realtime) is running around 5-6 seconds a lap faster. Now if the one guy said the FFR was only lapping around 2 seconds faster than a spec miata would it be safe to say that a touring car would be able to take out a FFR on a roadcourse even given the basically stock powerful levels of say the DC2 ITR's? It would be a great point to show him that power isn't everything.

 

Where, in his dorm?

This is one of the worst ideas i've heard, in the long, sad history of bad ideas

 

I might just be in a funk today but I am increasingly of the opinion that human beings' inability to learn from others' mistakes or remember the lessons of even the recent past is hardwired into our brains. It was probably selected for over generations because once in a great while, it produces real cleverness but generally - failure. The good news is that someone will be able to buy the half-finished pile of parts at a good price.

Kirk

(Who DOES remember what it was like to be 20. And 13 for that matter...)

 

Unfortunately, no comparison can really be made. AFAIK, no FFR has been built and driven to the same level as the Speed Touring cars. Regardless, the FFR is a tail-happy, high power (relative to the econo-boxes most of us race) car that is likely to get a noob in trouble.

And like RJ and Knestis have mentioned, where/when is he going to build this? He'd be muc beetter off buying somebody else's "streetable" IT car.

 

I do not agree that the FFR is too much for a noob racer. I know there are exeptions to everything, but there are safe ways to approach a first weekend in a fast car.
I know from experience, my first wheel to wheel experience was a in a GT-1 car, last year.
I had been doing solo II and Solo I for many years but the fastest car I have ever driven on a track was my 92 Civic Si.
I was fine.
I went into it with lots of help and a very clear mind, I wasn't going to try and be fast, just get comfotable in the car. I had a great first weekend, I had zero trouble, I just worked my way up over the weekend.
Yes, it was a very large jump, 125hp Si to 500+hp tube frame car, but it was completely managable when you know what to expect. Respect is the big thing here, respect that throttle or bad things will happen, fast.

 

Well he's not even a noob racer yet. You had a pretty good bit of experience. He has none at all, not even an auto-x event. I just think there are better alternatives for him.

 

For comparison at Phoenix International:
FFR 1:14
SM 1:15:78
SWTC Around 1:10's
Trans Am 1:01
My E30 M3 Street car 1:14.9
Definetly would not make it my only car! I think the ultimate track car would be that Honda S2000 powered Lotus 7 kit that keeps popping up on this board.

 

Or a 2.5L K series CRV-TEC in either an Elise, or a HF CRX.

 

Ahh, but there's the rub. Not all new drivers go in with their mind in the right place.

Personally, I think all drivers should be forced to start in a RWD ITC car. IF you can drive an old ITC car fast, you can more than likely drive anything fast.

 

Thats where most go wrong. Start small and stock, learn to drive, then move up.
How many go straight to F1/Nascar WC? None. Lots start in Go-carts.
I think the Spec Miatas are the best bang for the buck, right now.
Theres a lot of them and a good learning curve.
That is where he should start. A stock 90-93 Miata and auto-X and do every Track day he can.
Pick experienced drivers minds and take rides with them when you can.
Ask them to ride and give pointers.
Then start mods.
Miatas make great daily drivers too.

If you can't drive 90hp, 900hp won't help you!

 

True enough, I didn't realize he has zero experience.

 

I can remember as a little kid riding my bike all over my neighbourhood and into scary strange neighbourhoods. I was looking for a wooden barrel. I had seen Yogi Bear on TV, fly in a plane made from a wooden barrel and a plank for a wing, with Bubu Buddy at his side riding shotgun. Could it be more simple? Just find a barrel.

Every time I read an article about the FFR I think about sending away for the "info kit" (refundable with order!) and then I realize that I might as well just hop on my bike and see if I can find that barrel.

Victor Penner