Here is the chain of events. (wont mention the name of the shop at this time)
This is a 92 h23 built turbo prelude, and i am the second owner. I bought it from a good friend of mine (Silverludesi) and i know the car pretty well.

The engine was built last summer with:
-je 9:1 pistons
-GE sleeves
-Pauter rods
-new crank
-line bored
-p&p head with custom dual valve springs from Portflow
-hondata 3b
-aem fuel rail
-720cc injectors
-arp headstud
-the shop's own brand of cam gears
-etc, etc.......other things which i dont think pertain to the problem.

After the engine was built it has always been very noisy. We thought it was from the head because of the dual valve springs which we thought was why it was abnormally loud. After the engine was built, it was retuned and made about 240 at 7 psi.

After a short period of time, the cam gears broke...as in the cam broke off the gear which led to a couple bent valves. But the shop is very reputable and responsible and they took care of it.

After they fixed it with new valves and a redesigned version of thier cam gear. the car didnt seem to run right still. It was still very loud and the EGT was very low and the car was weak.

I went to a different shop to mainly get it on a dyno and see how it was running and to also get a new downpipe since mine was all bent. This shop also has very good expirience with the H series engines.

Now what they told me is that the sound coming from the engine is not very good. They said it wasnt coming form the head and was not the valve springs. They said they thought it was coming form the bottom end, sounded liek a bad bearing or piston slap.

They did a compression test and came back with:

160, 140, 140, 150
(keep in mind these are 9:1 stock bore JE's and GE sleeves)
They also put it up on thier dyno and it only made 211 whp at 7 psi.

So i called the shop who originally built the motor and they said theyd look at it again first of next month which is the soonest possible.

Well as my post comes to an end, kinda wondering why im postin this....i guess to just vent and let this up for others to ponder.
I guess my question is, what could cause the noise from the bottom end, what could cause these compression numbers on a freashly built motor, any ideas or any kind of input anyone has, and i guess im lookin for a little assurance anyone could give me at the least.

 

bad piston ring seating?

noise could be a spun bearing?

 

Yea thats what my top culprit is right now, i guess only way to find out is take it apart again after about 2000 miles.

 

Wow they are some bad compression numbers, should be ~160 across.

If the engine emmits that continuous tapping sound, it may be a spun bearing. I had this happen, and it did sound like a bit of a valve tap at first. The engine also shook a bit more.

I hope this shop takes care of you, and I have a good feeling which one it is.

 

Yea we'll see. Just sucks that it seems like the car will be ready not this spring but the summer.

So its been out for about a year.....

Oh u think ya knwo do ya? Its not that hard to figure out but im not here to bad mouth them just yet.....

The former owner (silverludesi) is still very involved with the car, kind of why he sold it to me too. We'll see how they handle this situation first and believe me, you guys will be first to know how my overall expirience with them was.

 

Man, that sux to hear.

This is the reason why I didn't want to turbo my H23. I figure an H22 with a built head is good enough. I want reliability and be able to drive it.

If you need any OEM H23 parts let me know. I have an H23 bottomend that I am taking apart. I THINK it has a spun rod bearing but I have not yet taken the motor apart. I am in Columbia, MD.

 

Do you really think an h22 is that much more reliable than a built h23? I mean reliability wise i think it should have been bullet proof. What i question now is the actual assembly of the engine. It seems liek maybe the bearing was not installed correctly maybe
But the problem stems from the building of the block, not the reliability of it id say.

 

did u guys break in the motor correctly.. alot of times i see guys with huge nasty injectors and they dont have it tuned so the rings never seat... i dont think this is your case.. taping sounds from for spun mains.. in my case at least.. man i could hear those things they are so ****** loud.. talk about a power loss.. my friends 1.5 was faster when the bearins spun.. i knew someting was wrong.. i dont know if u would make that much power with spun mains.. although i did spin 2..

 

Yea, i dunno why the bearings may be bad besides them not being installed correctly. As for the rings being set corectly, it was tuned shortly after it was built so it took a couple high presure dyno runs.
But in either case sumthin is deffinitly makin an ungodly disgusting noise.

 

Such a bummer man. I went through a disasterous 9 months with a local shop in the Philly burbs. They ended up spinning the bearings not long after freshening up the motor and installing it. The oil pump lost pressure. The shop had the ***** to ask for $1200 to fix it too! Anyway, enough about my story; just know you're not alone. They did not work with me, and I bashed them for a long, long time. Hopefully this shop takes care of you, unlike mine.

I would think the bearings would not be installed 'wrong', but more like the wrong bearings were used. Just IMO, and i'm also sure your rings seated properlly from the full-load runs.

Best of luck, when do they look at the motor?

 

First of the month if they have space.

Well this shop is very well known and i guess peopel might consider them a little bit more pricey, but very competent. Because of thier outstanding reputation we choose them.
Im sure they will take care of me, or i would be very dissapointed.

 

What kind of noise is it making exactly?? Mine makes a sort of tapping noise.. and I adjusted my valves. It's done it since the day I got it about 8 months ago. It still runs good... doesn't seem like I'm losing a bunch of power like you guys are saying. My car has 70k miles on it and it's stock and never been driven super hard. I can't imagine it being a bearing... but I'm **** about it... I'm not sure if I'm just hearing normal noises from the valve train or if something is wrong...

 

I had a valve adjustment done so its not that.

 

I bought a Prodrive oil pump gear (NEW IB) from Silverludesi before december... great guy...

he said the reason being is that the first one wasn't machined right, so bought another and when he received the new one he sold me this one... so...

maybe the bad oilpump caused low flow or oil pressure wearing out a bearing.. maybe they installed the rods backwards ?

i'm currious about it too....

 

No when he recived the new one it was too late to install it so he just installed a new stock oil pump gear.

 

ahh man that sucks. So what is this shop that knows alot about H22's ?

 

The second shop i went to is called Tempest racing. (www.tempestracing.com)

They have liek i 600hp h22 drag car, got to see it in person very nice design. Their welding looks awesome.
All the work i hear is second hand, seem like they knwo thier poop but i cant speak from personal expirience. But they do have a dyno and they do tune Hondata which is always a plus.

 

What im having a problem figuring out is what coudl cause a loss of compression on all 4 cylinders? Maybe i need to re-torque my headstuds since they r brand new arp studs that r like 1000 miles old? I know the HG is fine.. Cant figure it out.

 

There is hardly a shop (good rep or not) that won't start screwing customers once they think it's in their best interest.

If they think they have a good enough rep, then it's just as easy to shaft one or two people to save some cash, since they think that you won't be able to TOUCH their reputation.

Look at JG Engine Dynamics. Once kings of the import world, they now are bottom feeders. They take the riceboys, and the people who just haven't been around long enough to know that they SUCK and they will *** rape you at the drop of a hat.

I don't care WHAT shop it is. They may take care of you with no hassel whatsoever, but just in case - Here is what you NEED TO DO:

Write down a list of all the events that happened from the time the motor got back in the car, to the time you take it to them. The shop that you dyno'd at, what they said, what their opinion at the time was. Anytime you talk to a shop, or a professional, and specifically the unnamed shop "taking care of you," write down dates, times, conversations, what was said, who said it, what their attitude was at the time etc.
Get overly specific. When you talk to them in person, have another person with you at all times as a witness. Try to have someone on another phone taking notes when you talk to them over the phone. Take pictures of the car, the motor etc so they can't change anything and then try to blame it on you.

If you're lucky, they take care of you, and you go about your business. If you are one of the hundreds of thousands of auto enthusiasts that happen to have a nightmare of an experience, then all the documentation you did will help you settle it.

This is just coming from personal experience. IF they fix it, then all you've done is created a little extra work for yourself. If they try to screw you, then you at least have very specific evidence that will look good in court if it goes that far.

 

Thanks i will do that if it comes down to it. Anyone have any theories bout the low compression? If it were a bad bearing, could it cause teh comp #'s?


[Modified by MordecaiPSI, 8:35 AM 3/27/2003]

 

what I'm saying is do it now while everyone is nice and friendly still. If things get nasty, they start paying attention to what they say.

It's times like now when they'll change up the story, or change up the symptoms etc. You aren't a concern for them, so they don't have to pay attention to what they say, a LOT of times busy shops won't remember what they told you, and they'll just make something up on the fly.

I'm just wanting you to be careful with yourself. I don't want to scare you, but I've known a whole lot more people with bad experiences than good ones. I've got a friggin' pile of bad experience with shops myself.

Hope everything turns out hunkey dorey!

 

I will deffinitly do this. Thanks.

 

3 spun bearings, like I had. Possible loss of pressure could be the culprit. Your compression should be 160. It was almost 2 years ago but I think the 3 I spun were the same as yours. Low compression, rough idle, and tapping are common side effects.

Like Todd mentioned, document everything and legal help is always the last resort. Don't pull that card unless you absolutely have no choice(like I did).

Mike

 

Did u ever find out what caused you spun bearings? Im sure my oil presure was fine.

Im wondering if the low compression numbers could have been caused by the rings being filed incorrectly causing some slap?

 

Well i took it to the original shop and they say that the compression was fine and it read 200 on all 4 cylinders I guess thats what the comp ratio is suppose to be on 9:1 JE's......

They said the motor was fine but he thought the tuning was bad and they think it was running rich because there was fuel in the oil and also the plugs where fouled.

The person who tuned my car was Sakai so im not sure what is going on here.

Second shop said my comps were 160 140 140 150 and now the original shop says its 200 across?

The second shop i took it to put it on the dyno and it only put down 211whp and was runnin a little lean.

What i dont get is the EGT was reading rich only agter the new cam gear and valves were installed...why? It was running fine before the cam gears broke and bent a valve. Only after i got the car back was it runnin rich or really lean from what the egt was reading. (now the egt is broke or sumthin, reading 1200c at all times even when the car is off )

When i get a chance after midterms im gonna do a comp test myself see whats going on.

i feel like

[Modified by MordecaiPSI, 10:44 PM 4/2/2003]


[Modified by MordecaiPSI, 10:56 PM 4/2/2003]