Taken from MouhadIb's "Could I have Hydrocloked the Engine?" post:

"I said this before, and I'll say it again, name one person whose had hydrolocking problems who has the by-pass valve. Everyone here seems to be in agreement that more hydrolocking cases are popping up. But not one of these cars had a by-pass valve on it, why....because it works. If it didn't, AEM wouldn't make it. Not because they're honost but because if they made a product and said it made a CAI safe in the rain and it didn't, they'd be screwed. I could do any test on this thing including driving my car w/ a by-pass valve through a storm, and if it survived, one of these skeptics would still be bitching about something, saying they didn't beleive it. They will never be satisfied, but the bottom line still is, no one with this valve has had any problems yet, and if it didn't work, AEM wouldn't make it, for liability reasons.

Nuff said!"

 

I took mine off cause my engine was breathing through the B-valve - I could easily tell cause I could never here the sound of air running through the long chamber - Now I can, now I can here the actual air filter drawing in air at idle, (behind the right turn signal) before I could not, I wish I post a pic of just how dirty the foam filter got in side the B-valve, the torque from my engine ripped 3 yes 3 bypass valves in half - but they have that problem undercontrol with a voluntary recall - you get a free $.02 clip... So there you have the two sides to the story - I drive around puddles a foot deep - not through them

 

I'm not arguing how good the by-pass valve is...I'm just saying that it works.

 

i have the bypass valve and i still drive around puddles just to be on the safe side...even though i have ran into a couple puddles bc they were unavoidable. i still slow down but nothing's happen ever since i got it. kinda adds a sense of security for me even though im pretty sure if i didnt have the valve i would have been stuck on the side of the road. my .02

 

People are lacking common sense these days...they complain about how the bypass valve doesn't work, and they get all skeptical about the testing results. Well, how hard is it to get a bypass valve, which has a high POTENTIAL of avoiding hydrolocking during a big storm?

I would get everything there is available that can protect my motor from being ruined. I invested so much in my motor, and even if some other accessory that only has a 20% chance of preventing hydrolocking, I wil still get it.

At the end...having a bypass valve is ALWAYS better than having no bypass valve.

 

I forget if it's the owner or president or somthing of AEM let Superstreet ( i think or sportcompact car) do a test on his NSX with the by-pass valve on a dyno. They did everything possible to try to get it to suck up watter like it would driving and the motor was fine, even at 8000RPM+ I beleive the review was posted on AEM's website also.

I have one, havnt put it on yet because i dont want to cut my pipe....

 

I have something else to add:

I was curious about everyone always bashing the by-pass valve, saying it took away sound and hp...so I went out and bought a rubber connecter and took out my valve. The only thing I noticed was sound. I heard the hissing at no/little throtle and a much louder, raspier sound at WOT. I must say, I like the more civil noise of the AEM w/ the valve. Don't get me wrong, I love the loud growl of a car, but w/ the strait through intake and my header, the sound just sounded crapy and uneven. As for power, I might have felt a little, but most likely it was just my ***-o-dyno being fooled by noise. (However I will use this setup for the drag strip just in case).

So there you have it, the real difference the by-pass valve makes.

Oh, and Tony made another great point....why wouldn't anyone get it. Even if it only protects from submersion and not splashes....thats one less thing that can fu*k up your car.

So now that I've tried it w/ and w/o the valve, I still stand behind it.

 

The argument is not that the bypass valve does not help at all, the argument is that it does not stand up to AEMs claims. I have discussed the physics of this at length twice before.

Your premise above is based on entirely faulty reasoning (the quote in the original post). Just because AEM sells it does not mean it works as they say. According to the laws of physics and fluid dynamics, there is no way that any reasonable person could expect the toy to work right unless the filter was entirely submerged. The valve's critics (like me) are simply stating that AEM is misrepresenting the facts; the device does not prevent hydrolock except in extreme scenarios.

I have never heard of someone who has hydrolocked with the AEM bypass valve on, but that is not a valid reason to draw the conclusion that it functions properly. AEM intakes have been being made for a good 5 years now. The bypass valve has not even been out a year (in production). This means that at most, 20% of people have the bypass valve (and we know that it is a much smaller number). This means that if hydrolock occurs, it is more likely to occur to someone without the bypass valve by a factor of 4. (These statistics have been highly simplified.) Also, people purchase the bypass valve out of paranoia; The sort of person who purchases one is more likely to be careful in wet situations than an entirely ignorant person. And consequently, by statistics, someone with a bypass valve would be less likely to hydrolock than someone without a bypass valve. Does this mean the product works? No.

In our engines, the compression ratio is at least 9.2:1 (my gsr is 10.0:1). This means there is very little space in the head when the piston is at TDC. It only takes a very small amount of water (non-atomized) to hydrolock the engine. The bypass valve opens when it is harder to pull air from the intake piping than it is to take it from the engine bay. Will small splashes of water affect his pressure differential? No. Are small splashes of water enough to hydrolock the motor? Yes. Do tests that involve splashing/sprays of water w/ the valve result in water in the engine? Yes.

AEM wants to make money. If they were concerned about people damaging their engines, they would include bypass valves with their CAI for free, and they would distribute them retroactively for previous customers. Why sell a bypass valve if it does not work as claimed? Because there is a demand for it. <bad analogy> There is also apparently a demand for those intake "electric" superchargers for $79 that create 1psi of boost or whatever. Does that mean it is a good product? No. Do people still buy them? Yes </bad analogy> AEM is just capitalizing on a market. Their "fine print" even admits that the bypass valve only protects in "fully submerged" situations.... and yet their marketing folks contradict themselves with "Eliminates all chances of motor hydrolock". Impressive.

I am not claiming that you are not better off with the bypass valve installed.... of course you are. But thinking that it eliminates the chances of hydrolock is absurd. I also seem to think that the people who so vehemently support it do so only to make themselves feel better. They shelled out $40 for a "magic valve" that is supposed to cure the incurable. If I am right and they are wrong, they pretty much wasted $40. If $40 is worth some malinvested peace of mind, then go ahead by all means.... Just do not think your hydrolock fears have been extinguished.

Dustin

 

That was a fantastic explanation Dustin!

I am still going to get one NOT cause of the puddles on the road but becuse I dont want to have to go through the same thing that happened to me last week. I almost, ALMOST hydrolocked the car when Allison dumped all of her water down here and caused floods in almost all the surrounding areas.

Lucky for me piston No4 was sucking in while the water got into it and the car stalled.

I'm just going to get one so that THIS doesn't happpen again. BTW...for you folks that say...why are you driving in that anyways... well when you are out on the streets getting home then all of a sudden there is too much water for the canals to hold then you get water into the road like a river.

 

MouhadIb:

Honestly, if I had come that close to hydrolock I would just junk the dumb AEM. When I had my AEM and I drove in the rain, my intake piping was full of water droplets.

I say you chalk up one of your car's 9 lives and get a filter on a stick or something

Dustin

 

Dustin is right on the ball with that one.

im gonna chime in with somthing, nothing is new with this discussion at all, because we have had lenghtly drawn out debates over this in the past i remember, and dustin saying the same thing that still holds water (no pun intended).

Bottom line, AEM is not there to help people, they are there to make money, if they really wanted to help people they would give the bypass valve to everyone, or invented it with the first AEM because the idea of them not thinking about ingesting water is just dumb.

Btw, when they tested the bypass valve totally submerged and lifted it out of the fish tank, it violently rose up the piping , and if you look at the picture the water was clearly above the engine, and if the extension wasnt there i believe there was enough vaccum/air pushing it from the bottom to suck it into the engine.....and they even state dont go racing anyone right after you get out of the puddle cause water is gonna go in.

but yes it's gonna help protect the engine, but it's not a cureall for your hydrolocking woes.

 

I never said AEM made the valve to be nice to their customers, of course they made it to make money. But just imagine the law suit they would have if someone with one hydrolocked their engine. I know damn well that if my engine got fu*ked because the valve didn't work like they said it would, I'd sue their *** so fast. If AEM knew it didn't work for ****, they wouldn't have released it. They couldn't have, too big of a financial risk.

And about the SCC test and the filter only being fully submerged. When they pulled the filter out at WOT it was partially submerged at some time. And about the water being pulled up, it never actually reaced the engine. Yes the intake pipe was longer, but the vertical part wasn't that much longer than ours (by only 6" or so) and if the water was above the engine why didn't it fall into it??? Another thing, I dont know my NSX's that well, but I'm pretty sure they suck air in a lot harder than our cars do. If that didn't have the power to suck up the water, you think our civics and integras will???

Ok, now Dustin said there were tests where water was splashed onto the filter and it hyrdolocked an engine.....what tests are these, I've never heard of them......

One last thing, everyone who says this is an old topic, don't reply...hell, don't even look at it. If we never reposted anything, we wouldn't be able to say anything, cuz basically everything here's been said before. This board is here so that we can talk about what we love, our cars, if this post takes up too much room, sorry. Also, I dont want anyone to get angry over this, I made this so that we could have a friendly conversation so that we could all learn something. If it bothers you, dont reply.

oh, and Dustin, you make some good points. its just that I still stand behind the valve

 

[QUOTE]. I know damn well that if my engine got fu*ked because the valve didn't work like they said it would, I'd sue their *** so fast. If AEM knew it didn't work for ****, they wouldn't have released it. They couldn't have, too big of a financial risk[\QUOTE]

Are you sure that the bypass valve is Guaranteed to STOP hydrolocking or just to help PREVENT hydrolocking .......

 

could you expand on what the difference is?

 

Because if it (bypass valve) is guaranteed to stop hydrolocking then they (AEM) would be more liable if hydrolocking did occur. If it (bypass valve) is just to prevent hydrolocking then there is nothing you could do cause they are not liable since there was never a guarentee that it could not happen... It is kinda like a water resistant watch. I mean it doesnt say that water can not in any way get into it (the watch) and screw it up, because it is just resistant, now on the other hand if it was water PROOF and water got in it I would take the thing back and get another watch...

 

This is what AEM says:

"This valve installs on the intake pipe along the same axis as the throttle body and eliminates any chance of water ingestion should the filter element become wet from rain, hail, sleet, snow, flood or any other scenario where the filter element could encounter or become completely submerged in water."

This basically says that if the filter comes in contact with water in any way, the by-pass valve will prevent hydrolock.

Hell, even if it doesn't work, AEM is now liable because they said this this.....just another reason to get one.


[Modified by 00SilverLS, 5:42 PM 6/14/2001]

 

Good point. ::sigh::

 

Glad I'm going turbo.

 

And people say FI is dangerous. Hehe.

 

DAMN, you guys can bitch ! The thing makes power ! Yeah, in some situations it's dangerous....don't go speeding thru a puddle ! You shouldn't do that without a CAI anyways... are you out there to Fu*kup your engine ??
What about your rotors....they can warp when they get wet (while hot)..... Don't drive thru puddles....didn't yo mama tell y'all that ? If a shotty of NOS put a piston thru your hood... are you gonna call Nitrous Express and bitch at someone b-cuz you put a 100 shot on a 7 year old stocker 1.5L ? No.... why? B-cuz that would be stupid ! I'm not calling anyone stupid...... maybe my boss.... but c'mon... you don't drive at 120, crash and sue the company that made your car cuz they didn't put in a speed limiter at 60mph !!!!

If you don't like the danger of hydrolock..get a bypass valve... if you are still unsure... take off the CAI and sell it on e-bay as a relic, lose the HP gain and smile b-cuz you are safe from the evil of hydrolock.

BTW.. that NSX in SCC belonged the John concialdi, AEM's chief engineer. He designed the BP valve... and his is very confident in his product.

One more thing... I heard AEM just became a charity organization and is giving away adjustable cam gears to the homeless....


X2 says: Those who pay attention in class....not notice pretty girl in hallway...


[Modified by X2BOARD, 2:54 AM 6/15/2001]

 

and where are they passing out these cam gears? and what would a homeless person do with cam gears? strange....

 

Heres my idea to find the solution. AEM, or somebody else should go buy a beater Civic, throw the CAI on it, with bypass, and when it rains, somewhere where it rains heavily, drive that **** through as many puddles as possible. Fast, slow, forwards, backwards, full throttle, no throttle, do a THOUROUGH test in an actual surrounding in which we have, not on a dyno with tha damn thing stickin out tha side of tha car, not with a vacuum cleaner, no bs. I mean for christs sake, a company as large as AEM could afford to buy a car like that and try it. Damn, worst case they have to put a new motor in it, but if their product works as well as they say it does, then they should be willing to give it a whirl. Thats just what i think.

 

I agree!! AEM should test a civic out, report the results and this way at least people will feel a little bit better about their product.

But just to play devil's advocate...how do you know AEM already has'nt tested a civic, hydrolocked it and never released the results ??

Food for thought

-Rage

 

umm are you making fun of me?

also, i dont know my NSXs too well either, but since the water was above the engine, or so it appears, it should fall in, but like i said, before the pipe appears to be lenghtened not to mention the bend in the pipe where it becomes a downward angle is still at a higher level than where the water was in that set up....

Yes i agree with worked when the thing was fully submerged

and as for the NSX sucking air harder than the integras at 8k rpm.......well considering it's the actual "sucking" power is not nessearily on the engine side of the intake, but rather the pushing power by the air in the atmosphere...because no matter what you do, your not gonna suck more than a vaccum. But your gonna push harder depending on the pressure differences....what im getting at here is that like i said i dont know my NSX too well, but until you can show me the intake manifold pressure of the NSX compared to that of the Integra, i would assume they suck air pretty similarly, not exact, but close.... NSX moves more air true. But suck harder dont know about that...

Im done with this, it's 330am and im in a bad mood

btw, i am not arguing with you im mearly discussing. I still respect your thoughts and they are yes, valid points i believe to some scale, but you cannot say my points are not valid either. To each his own. 00SilverLS, your on my list of people who can bring up interesting yet challenge debates

-kb0t, who thinks his final words will be "the By-pass valve does what it was designed to do, but like everything else, somthing can go wrong that they didnt think of or care to address, so dont cry if you hydrolock your motor"


[Modified by Ricehornet, 3:36 AM 6/15/2001]

 

way 2 long 2 read but..

jamie have valve. jamie like valve. jamie happy.