For all those with leaking Koni front struts...
here's a link from clubrsx. CRXlee, from this forum, answered a few questions in regards to this topic...
click the link: http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread...threadid=70530
Edit: The most important info is on the 2nd page...late
[Modified by sjracer, 4:58 AM 3/19/2003]
click the link: http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread...threadid=70530
Edit: The most important info is on the 2nd page...late
[Modified by sjracer, 4:58 AM 3/19/2003]
Incase people get lazy and do not want to read all the posts on ClubRSX, i have posted the 2 most important posts that KONI Lee has made. Check this http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread...threadid=70530 that sjracer has left above (thanks man!) for indepth discussion with KONI Lee and some people on ClubRSX. You might be encountering the same problems some of the people there might be. Check it out.
Repsonse from KONI North America
Hello,
My name is Lee Grimes and I am the Sales Manager for KONI North America who oversees KONI products for street cars including the RSX. I am very sorry to hear that some customers are experiencing a problem with oil leakage through the top adjuster. This is a situation that has just come to our attention in the last week or two so we are in process to get it resolved. I would like to respond to a few specific points:
1) Although in the last week or so our technical staff has received three or four contacts from RSX owners who have oil leakage at the top adjusters, we have not had a single person or dealer request an RGA (Returns Goods Authorization) to start the warranty process and we have not seen a single example of a leaking 8610-1415 Sport. We have inspected each one of the 50+ units we have in stock and have not found one leaking.
2) If your shock is leaking through the top adjuster with no outward sign or damage, it will certainly be covered by the lifetime defect and wear out warranty. All you have to do is contact your dealer or KONI North America directly and we will arrange a prompt replacement. We will ask for a copy of your purchase receipt (showing you are the original purchaser) and a copy of the registration of the car (showing that you own the car for street use). We will generate an RGA then arrange to send you out a new shock to install on the car then return the old one or have you return the the old one for inspection first (your choice). To this point, no RSX owner or dealer has done this.
3) The development on the RSX was by no means rushed to market or not complete. In fact it was a long and thorough process that took an extended period of time because of a number of dimensional and volume issues. The RSX was the number 1 priority shock for KONI North America for the better part of 2002 (the new Mini was #2) because we saw the popularity of the car and had an opprotunity to make some improvements. The RSX units became available in the US in December 2002 and took over a year longer to get to market than the similar but not the same 2000+ Honda Civic units. Many people told us they would be the same as the Civic but in fact they are quite different dimensionally and by valving. The RSX shares much of it's suspension with the European Civic Type R so these parts were coordinated to get the best performance out of both cars. We have no plans of coming out with a replacement part for the RSX, this is what we are happy with (unless there is a leakage problem). We would like in the future to offer a threaded coil-over suspension system but that is to be determined because of issues acquiring the lower mounts and steering arm brackets. Cost and acquisition of these parts is why the current parts are inserts and not complete housings.
4) In the four months that the RSX units have been on the market, these three or four contacts have been the only comments of a problem on these parts. That puts the number at under 2% of units sold to date (not 70%) but still 2% is enough to cause us concern and start an investigation. I have already contacted the European KONI product management and have notified them of this issue and this thread. Once we receive back some of these leaking units from consumers, we can start the inspection and problem solving process. As I mentioned before though, not a single one has been returned nor have we generated a single RGA.
If you have any questions or warranty situations, please feel free to contact our North American staff at 859-586-4100 or info@koni-na.com. Our warranty is straight forward and has very minimal requirements to use. Our technician Gordon has already been quoted several times on this thread and is there to help consumers and dealers with information and problem resolution. If you have a problem, let us know as this is the only way we can here of an issues is from consumer response.
I am sorry for the long post but hopefully this will answer some questions and correct some misinformation
____________________
Because of this discussion, we have been contacted by two members of clubrsx.com with RGAs underway for both of them. If there are other members with issues, please feel free to contact us. Their shocks will be shipping out today so hopefully we will have some to inspect in about a week or so. Now the real investigation can begin.
If you have moisture at the top of your insert, wipe it off and see if it returns. It could be remaining assembly oil or as mentioned above some strut top bearing lubricant or it could be simply a leaking strut. If your unit is leaking profusely (big drips or puddles), contact us immedialtely. If it is just moist and remaining moist, keep an eye on it periodically and make sure that you have a copy of your receipt available if something needs to be done. Once we get a few sets in for review, we can figure out what the issue might be. There is no need for a land rush to return any strut with a little moisture on it immediately because it will need to lose a large volume of oil before performance is effected. If you hold onto your receipt, your KONIs are warranted until you are 100 or more years old if you still own it for street use by then so don't panic that the warranty will go away if they are not replaced this week.
If you begin the warranty process, we will ask you how far your car is lowered. This is simple data gathering as we need to know the conditions of how they were used in the field and is not a step to void your warranty. Unlike many other shock comapnies, KONI does not void a warranty for simply having your car too low then having a defect occur. If it is a defect and not failure from damage or abuse, we don't care how low the car is.
Repsonse from KONI North America
Hello,
My name is Lee Grimes and I am the Sales Manager for KONI North America who oversees KONI products for street cars including the RSX. I am very sorry to hear that some customers are experiencing a problem with oil leakage through the top adjuster. This is a situation that has just come to our attention in the last week or two so we are in process to get it resolved. I would like to respond to a few specific points:
1) Although in the last week or so our technical staff has received three or four contacts from RSX owners who have oil leakage at the top adjusters, we have not had a single person or dealer request an RGA (Returns Goods Authorization) to start the warranty process and we have not seen a single example of a leaking 8610-1415 Sport. We have inspected each one of the 50+ units we have in stock and have not found one leaking.
2) If your shock is leaking through the top adjuster with no outward sign or damage, it will certainly be covered by the lifetime defect and wear out warranty. All you have to do is contact your dealer or KONI North America directly and we will arrange a prompt replacement. We will ask for a copy of your purchase receipt (showing you are the original purchaser) and a copy of the registration of the car (showing that you own the car for street use). We will generate an RGA then arrange to send you out a new shock to install on the car then return the old one or have you return the the old one for inspection first (your choice). To this point, no RSX owner or dealer has done this.
3) The development on the RSX was by no means rushed to market or not complete. In fact it was a long and thorough process that took an extended period of time because of a number of dimensional and volume issues. The RSX was the number 1 priority shock for KONI North America for the better part of 2002 (the new Mini was #2) because we saw the popularity of the car and had an opprotunity to make some improvements. The RSX units became available in the US in December 2002 and took over a year longer to get to market than the similar but not the same 2000+ Honda Civic units. Many people told us they would be the same as the Civic but in fact they are quite different dimensionally and by valving. The RSX shares much of it's suspension with the European Civic Type R so these parts were coordinated to get the best performance out of both cars. We have no plans of coming out with a replacement part for the RSX, this is what we are happy with (unless there is a leakage problem). We would like in the future to offer a threaded coil-over suspension system but that is to be determined because of issues acquiring the lower mounts and steering arm brackets. Cost and acquisition of these parts is why the current parts are inserts and not complete housings.
4) In the four months that the RSX units have been on the market, these three or four contacts have been the only comments of a problem on these parts. That puts the number at under 2% of units sold to date (not 70%) but still 2% is enough to cause us concern and start an investigation. I have already contacted the European KONI product management and have notified them of this issue and this thread. Once we receive back some of these leaking units from consumers, we can start the inspection and problem solving process. As I mentioned before though, not a single one has been returned nor have we generated a single RGA.
If you have any questions or warranty situations, please feel free to contact our North American staff at 859-586-4100 or info@koni-na.com. Our warranty is straight forward and has very minimal requirements to use. Our technician Gordon has already been quoted several times on this thread and is there to help consumers and dealers with information and problem resolution. If you have a problem, let us know as this is the only way we can here of an issues is from consumer response.
I am sorry for the long post but hopefully this will answer some questions and correct some misinformation
____________________
Because of this discussion, we have been contacted by two members of clubrsx.com with RGAs underway for both of them. If there are other members with issues, please feel free to contact us. Their shocks will be shipping out today so hopefully we will have some to inspect in about a week or so. Now the real investigation can begin.
If you have moisture at the top of your insert, wipe it off and see if it returns. It could be remaining assembly oil or as mentioned above some strut top bearing lubricant or it could be simply a leaking strut. If your unit is leaking profusely (big drips or puddles), contact us immedialtely. If it is just moist and remaining moist, keep an eye on it periodically and make sure that you have a copy of your receipt available if something needs to be done. Once we get a few sets in for review, we can figure out what the issue might be. There is no need for a land rush to return any strut with a little moisture on it immediately because it will need to lose a large volume of oil before performance is effected. If you hold onto your receipt, your KONIs are warranted until you are 100 or more years old if you still own it for street use by then so don't panic that the warranty will go away if they are not replaced this week.
If you begin the warranty process, we will ask you how far your car is lowered. This is simple data gathering as we need to know the conditions of how they were used in the field and is not a step to void your warranty. Unlike many other shock comapnies, KONI does not void a warranty for simply having your car too low then having a defect occur. If it is a defect and not failure from damage or abuse, we don't care how low the car is.
no problem...
seriously though, if anyone has a problem with their front Koni inserts leaking around the adjuster you should contact Lee Grimes about getting you a replacement part...
this would also allow them (Koni of North America) to inspect the defective parts to show them how wide spread this problem really is! That would be the only way for them to "fix" the problem.
If you read this CRXlee, i'll try to get the defective struts to you ASAP as soon as the replacement struts get in...late
seriously though, if anyone has a problem with their front Koni inserts leaking around the adjuster you should contact Lee Grimes about getting you a replacement part...
this would also allow them (Koni of North America) to inspect the defective parts to show them how wide spread this problem really is! That would be the only way for them to "fix" the problem.
If you read this CRXlee, i'll try to get the defective struts to you ASAP as soon as the replacement struts get in...late
Here is more from KONI Lee as quoted from ClubRSX.
I got an email last Friday from the KONI product management in Holland regarding the RSX. They have not yet received any complaints of leakage from any other worldwide distributors on the 8640-1415 Sport yet but I think we are selling them at a faster rate in North America than the other countries as well.
They said they got my emails and held an impromptu meeting with people from product management, engineering and warranty about the problem. They cannot immediately come up with any reason why this should be happening so they will have to wait until they have a chance to inspect any leakers.
So at this point I don't know what the problem is, how long it will take to sort out or if it is possible to identify potential leakers in advance. Once we have some units to inspect, then we'll move forward. We put together several possible theories but most of those have already been shot down and we need to have some hard evidence to move forward.
If your units are specifically leaking, contact us and we'll get you some replacements and yours in for inspection. If you have some that are just damp and not really leaking, wipe them off and periodically check them to see if they ever start leaking meanwhile we'll get it sorted out and come up with an answer and best mode of resolution. Thanks for your patience and I'll let you know what we find out.
I got an email last Friday from the KONI product management in Holland regarding the RSX. They have not yet received any complaints of leakage from any other worldwide distributors on the 8640-1415 Sport yet but I think we are selling them at a faster rate in North America than the other countries as well.
They said they got my emails and held an impromptu meeting with people from product management, engineering and warranty about the problem. They cannot immediately come up with any reason why this should be happening so they will have to wait until they have a chance to inspect any leakers.
So at this point I don't know what the problem is, how long it will take to sort out or if it is possible to identify potential leakers in advance. Once we have some units to inspect, then we'll move forward. We put together several possible theories but most of those have already been shot down and we need to have some hard evidence to move forward.
If your units are specifically leaking, contact us and we'll get you some replacements and yours in for inspection. If you have some that are just damp and not really leaking, wipe them off and periodically check them to see if they ever start leaking meanwhile we'll get it sorted out and come up with an answer and best mode of resolution. Thanks for your patience and I'll let you know what we find out.
Here is more from KONI Lee as quoted from ClubRSX.
Most off the shelf KONIs get between 2-2.5 turns max to min but some vary based on the range allowed by the internal components. Many Hondas have about 1.75 turns but that is about the minimum number that I can think of. Off hand I don't know the exact count on the RSX but about 2 or more is usually the norm.
If your previous units were only getting 1.25 turns, I have a feeling that we will likely find something bent inside as evidence of bottoming. If the shock bottoms internally, the adjuster rod that sticks through the bottom of the piston hits the compression valve and can damage a number of things including bend the bottom of the piston or adjuster rods. Usually a hard bottoming impact will bend or break off an adjuster so that it either can't turn at all or spins forever freely. Light to medium bottoming might not blast it to bits but still bend things to limit range. That will all be evident once we get it in we'll open it up and investigate it . We'll see when we get it.
[Modified by MJ23FE, 5:36 PM 3/26/2003]
Originally posted by built 2 crawl
I received my replacements yesterday. The new one's give a full 2 turns, as the old one's give only 1.25 turns.
I received my replacements yesterday. The new one's give a full 2 turns, as the old one's give only 1.25 turns.
If your previous units were only getting 1.25 turns, I have a feeling that we will likely find something bent inside as evidence of bottoming. If the shock bottoms internally, the adjuster rod that sticks through the bottom of the piston hits the compression valve and can damage a number of things including bend the bottom of the piston or adjuster rods. Usually a hard bottoming impact will bend or break off an adjuster so that it either can't turn at all or spins forever freely. Light to medium bottoming might not blast it to bits but still bend things to limit range. That will all be evident once we get it in we'll open it up and investigate it . We'll see when we get it.
[Modified by MJ23FE, 5:36 PM 3/26/2003]
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