8's
10's
12's
15's

which ones to choose?
and why?
which will pump the loudest?
and why?
which sound better?
and why?

 

8's and 10's are accurate. But you really need 12's or 15's if you want mad bass. The trouble is that usually the bigger the speaker, the bigger the box needed. I like the sound of many 8's or 10's better than 15's. As far as loudness and sound quality, there are many variables like the tye of enclosure and the specs of the speaker. It's possible to get some pretty badass subs these days in any size. I tend to like JL Audio, Soundstream SPL, and Kicker. But I'm sure you'll find many opinions here.

Best thing to do is actually listen to different systems and decide what suits you best. Maybe just hang out at the local stereo shop and check out installs.

 

You will hear lots of opinions. You have to listen to the sub and decide for yourself.

Personally I would never buy an 8. Larger subs have better efficiency in the true subbass range which depending on who you are talking to ends at 30-50hz on the highend. In a car most of us don't have the 8" midbasses to allow us to get close to 50 with any authority.

IMO a 12 minimum is required to get some energy at this level. Anything less sounds weak in the subbass. If you want an SQ setup, then an 8 or 10 is good. The transfer function of your car will make up for lack of low end. In a home I would not even consider 8's and 10's for sub duty.

DISCLAIMER: Exotic boxes like horns can make the previous point invalid.

 

Go big or go home. I can't wait to get some money, my next setup is going to be sick...

 

How are 12's not accurate? Or as accurate as 8s?

Please explain.

 

larger speakers have more cone area so it takes longer to return back to it original form which causes distortion on a really fast hitting song or something like that. i've had every size in my car and i love the 10's. i've had
2 jl w3 15's( too big for my car and didn't sound as clean as i wanted), 3 jl w6v2's 12's(too much bass and started breaking stuff in my car-highly recommended because they sound as clean as 10's), 2 jl w3 8's(not enough bass), and right now i have 2 w3 10's and i love them. as long as you put them in the right box and right amp, it should be enough power and bass for you.

 

Because in larger subs there is more cone material to move around. If you look at a playing sub in slo mo, you can see the cone doing all sorts of weird flopping around. The bigger it is the more flopping it tends to do. And they do return to their original shape more readily. Besides just listening to them, smaller ones sound tighter somehow.

In the end it's personal preference. I'm not really a boomer.

 

wrong! i think it depends on the brand. my friend has 2 8's kickers L5's and they hit harder than his friends 2 15's.

 

You guys need to keep a few things in mind here...specifically what these drivers are designed for.

Most people would consider most 8" drivers either woofers or midbasses, not subwoofers!!!! Phoenix Gold's 9" Elite drivers are midbasses...not subs. Then again, there are 5" and 6" drivers (by Focal and JL respectively) designed to be used as subwoofers.

Calling an 8" more accurate then a 15" is not an sensible statement....at what frequency....the 8" will be better at 80Hz, but the 15" should kill it at 20Hz - so what exactly do you want?!?!?!?!

Most statements about subwoofers are farily generic, and many of the myths have changed over time. If you guys want subbass, then buy subwoofers!!! Don't buy 8" midbasses and expect them to play pipe organ blasts!!

 

Thanks, that is what I was trying to get across

For the larger is less accurate believers, check out the recent thread on subwoofers. It should answer your accuracy questions.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=405664

With a larger cone you essentially change the mms. Mms is not what determines the response.

 

8" subs can produce sub bass in the right enclosure especially.

 

oh yea..i remember that thread


if people think the smaller the more accurate, then i say we should all go buy 4" woofers since the smaller the accurate right? wait, a 2" woofer would be more accurate. no no..i mean a 1". smaller the better?

my point is that the diameter of the subwoofer does not matter at all. take a look at a few of the SQ champs using 15's and 18's. why not ask them how come they didn't go with 10's?

people who audition 15's and say the 10" counterpart sub sounds "tighter" because the 15" is probably in the wrong box. ever heard a 10" sub in a small box and a big box? ever wonder why the smaller box sounds more boomier than the bigger box? the bigger the box, the smaller the QTC. ideally, .707 is a very flat frequency response (great for SQ). lets go back to where supposedly "cone diameter" matters. oh wait..the diameter of the 10" stays the same, but how come its much more boomier with a higher QTC? ah ha! its the box of course! the box changes transient response, not the diameter of the subwoofer. now what if we can get a box for a 15" that has a QTC just like that of the 10" box..will it sound the same? sure! a box with a QTC of .707 and another box with a QTC of .707 also will have the same frequency response (assuming they are the same brand and model).

i'll brb..gotta go eat something first..

 

any sub can produce bass even at 10hz. heck, i can do it free-air, but you're most likely aren't going to get much output (SPL) from an 8" compared to the 15". at same volume, the 8" is going to have a harder time keeping up with the SPL, that in terms will stress out the woofer and you'll get distortion.

 

Ok. Can you model one that will exceed 110db in subbass and be flat for sq? No transfer function allowed.

I want to see this. I am sure it is possible, but you will get my point. It is not easy. I can pick any descent 12 and accomplish this.

 

I was responding to the post that claimed that 8" was only good for midbass. I don't seem to remember SPL being the prime objective here. If you want huge ghetto bass for everyone else to be forced to hear get big stuff.

 

he was saying don't buy 8" midbass drivers and expect it to play frequencies out of its intended range. rcurrely55 knows that there are 8" subwoofers too (how would he not know? )

 

SPL is always an objective even in an sq system. A descent component set is about 100 watts rms. Average components set sensitivity is 90db. So the component set could hit 110-113db at full power. Doesn't your 8 incher have to keep up to make this an sq system?

110 is not even close to ghetto bass.

 

Rcurley is correct. What frequencies and how loud do you expect to play these frequencies at. Different size speakers will have different efficiencies at different frequencies. Personally I wouldn't go larger than a 12 because the bigger speakers have their greatest efficiency at lower frequencies. I just don't seem to listen to too much music that plays in this region often. There a lot of small subwoofers that sound very good. Boston comes to mind, they have 5" and smaller subwoofers that sound pretty damn good. For my truck I run two JL 8w6's and they sound just fine. No where near the 3 12w6's I had in my integra. I have one 10" Illusion Audio in my NSX and it sucks a**. The question is what do you want to accomplish?

This is a general statement because differnent brands will also have different efficiencies even though they are the same size. Listen to different sizes and brands then decide what you want it to sound like. Then make your decision.



[Modified by nsxxtreme, 8:38 PM 3/11/2003]

 

I'm making the blind assumption that this post is in reference to me...if I'm wrong...sorry.

Look at a few of the drivers that JL has been putting out (seeing as they are a fairly mainstream company, most people are very familiar with them)

Nowhere did I say that 8" drivers are no good for subbass...take a look at the new 8W7...that's evidence enough. You can go the other direction with the 6W0...again another small subwoofer. They also made the 8IB4 which is well known for both sub and midbass.

Often times people bring the competition circuit into these disucssions. If anyone listens to track 5 on the IASCA cd, you will find that there is audio information that hits 18Hz....if you think most 8" drivers will reproduce this info with any authority, you are nuts. It's very difficult to do.

I have owned both 8" subs (JL8W1's) and 8" that I consider to be combo drivers (IDQ8DVC's) As you can see, there are drivers that are the same size, but have different applications....that's why I said that most of the statements made have been generic.

If you want to start looking at this discussion in a bit broader sense....some of the best sounding cars IASCA has ever seen used 12" midbass drivers (in ported enclosures mind you) and 18 or 15" subwoofers!!

There is no way to classify all woofers simply based on their size.

Essentially, everything comes back to the fact that install is everything!!!!

 

Ignoring things like cabin gain in determining SPL when discussing car audio isn't even relevant....guess what they are used in cars, so cabin gain is always there.

For a point of reference....Jason Winslow (I believe) hit a 129 using only a pair of IDQ8's in the doors of his Accord.

Scott Buhwalda stated that the most accurate/best sub-bass that ever has been in his award winning 240 came from a pair of JL8IB4's.

Can you do great things with 8"s...YES....the problem/conflict is that most consumers prefer their music to be bass heavy and unrealistic. This has often lead to people installing multiple large woofers with lots of power. This is more of a personal preference rather then a rule.

 

I understood from your previous post that 8" was not to be considered a sub. And that they were woofers or midbass. Maybe my screen displays text incorrectly. As for the guy talking about using 2" woofers, that's unconventional and beyond todays technology limits.

 

What????????
Did we step back to the stone ages or something I must have missed that.



[Modified by nsxxtreme, 8:51 PM 3/11/2003]

 

if people think the smaller the more accurate, then i say we should all go buy 4" woofers since the smaller the accurate right? wait, a 2" woofer would be more accurate. no no..i mean a 1". smaller the better?

Yes, you did miss it. Go back and look.

 

woops I didn't see the " after the 2 sorry.

 

exactly! so cone size DOESN'T affect the sub's frequency response. people think 12's are more accurate than 15's, 10's are more accurate than 12's, 8's are more accurate than 10's and so on forth. if people believe it was all true, then wouldn't it make sense that a 2" woofer (don't even know if there is any) would be more accurate than an 8" sub? get what i'm saying?. the smaller the sub does not mean it will reproduce the frequencies more accurately than a larger diameter sub.


[Modified by GSteg, 6:02 AM 3/12/2003]


[Modified by GSteg, 6:03 AM 3/12/2003]