I s it true that if you get a really stiff spring you may need to revalve your koni yellows? I have heard you can have just about anything done to your konis to allow different setups. Has anyone done this? i was planning on getting GC setup 400 500, would any work need to be done to the shocks? -jake

 

if you run a search there is a bunch of info on this topic.........

there are varied opinions on what spring rate needs a revalve for Konis to handle, some think 400, some think over 500

 

You should'nt need to revalve the shocks with the rates you plan to use.

 

Koni says they'll do fine up to 500lb/in.

 

What Koni says and what actually happens can be two different things (and is exactly what happened in my case). Even witha 400# spring, given time, the shock won't last long.

 

thats a rather misleading post. for one, there are other factors that effect damper lifetime much more then the spring rate you are using.

using 400# springs on ots koni yellows is fine. if it does shorten the shock life, it's not by an amount that you'll be able to tell. you HAVE to make sure that the shock doesn't bottom internally, but outside of that the shock should last a very long time. my shocks were abused with 600 and 700lb springs last year and were still functioning correctly when i took them off. the damping wasn't quite what the springs needed, but i didn't experience any sort of accelerated wear do to the rates.

nate-who suggests that you take everything you read on message boards with at least one grain of salt.

 

As I have said repeatedly, there is no specific spring rate number or line that is a "go/no go" point. There are simply too many variables and what you do with the car has a lot to do with it. I have said before that 400-500ish is getting up in the window that you might want to consider revalving depending oin what you are doing with the car. There definately is no other street shock on the market that has the valving control range that the KONI does and the vast majority cannot be custom tailored to be made so.

The off-the-shelf shock valvings were designed for street performance use with a very wide range of spring rates. The trend of increasing spring rates for street and track has escalated hugely in the last 5+ years. Less than 10 years ago if you said you had over 400 lb springs on your street Honda, you would have been laughed at as a nut case and now that is conservative compared to what some people run. A lot of that has to do with development, much has to do with the rapidly improving designs and grip levels of the tires available.

As for revalving, it is always possible to further refine any product for specific use if you customize it. If you are running a car in a stock spring autocross or race application, revalving the shock can make a solid performance improvement. As a street shock, the off-the-shelf KONI units are a balance of decisions, requirements and compromises that include good, safe handling response for a large range of spring rates and a larger range of drivers, reasonable street ride quality, reduced wear and and a high mile life expectancy all at a market acceptable price.

If for your use the importance of high rate capability and more precise handling control is a greater priority in exchange for reducing importance of ride quality and high mileage, then the priorities and expectations are shuffled and a different valving becomes an option. If the price is in line for you, then the customization can be done.

Several years ago we had actual complete production runs of new SPSS race valved KONIs and also even double adjustables built for Hondas. The dealers couldn't sell them in a reasonable time so the projects were dropped. There are simply more potential customers out there for the current performance improving product mix than there are for the cutting edge valving. As an example, several years ago with the assistance of some of the faster drag race Hondas, we developed some kick *** valvings that made really good launch improvements on import drag cars. But no matter how we tried, we could never mass produce them because by the time a drag car got to the point that it could benefit from them, there were too many cars with too many variables to expect one set of specs (lengths mostly) to cover enough cars. So now we do them on a case by case basis. Roadracing and autocross is a simialr but less extreme case.

Sorry for the long post but in summation, custom can always be made better than mass market as it can focus on the owner's individual wants and needs. To sell a production part to the mass market, one has to balance the many goals to cover as many options as possible. Therefore the people on the extreme edge may not find exactly what fits their desires off the shelf. Is there any part of life where a custom product cannot be made any better than an off-the-shelf product?



[Modified by CRX Lee, 6:08 PM 3/5/2003]

 

Don't apploigize Lee. Your posts are always an interesting read and very informative.

 

Not to sound like a n00b or anything, but what way have you guys found most helpful in determining if a shock is blown, without tearing the suspension down?

 

tire temps.

nate

 

good question nacho, i have no idea either, except on my old topaz when every time i hit a bump on the E-way i thought i was going to die.

 

The primary thing is to look for signs of leakage. On a KONI you can also turn the adjuster mechanism and see if it stops and starts with the right number of turns or not. When driving look for odd handling, especially if it does not feel consistent turning both ways. If the shock has lost forces, it will likely bounce or oscillate a few extra times after the suspension input instead of settling out properly after one oscillation.

 

.......My Konis listed one turn as full stiff, yet from the stopper @ full soft, it'll turn forever. It wa slike that when i got them..... :cornfused:

 

Although most cars get 2-2.5 turns stop to stop min to max, most of the normal Honda valvings are about 1.75 turns stop to stop becasue of the various parts used internaly. If your spin forever and don't stop (I think that is what you said), then the adjuster mechanism is broken and that often occurs from either bottoming it internally or jamming and overtoquing the adjuster and breaking the rod. It should come to a positive stop and min and max.

 

They NEVER came to a stop. From the day i took them out of the box (bought new) and checked 'em out before they were even on the car, all 4 turn seemingly infinately......

 

You can contact me at the office on Tuesday or later (out Monday) at 859-586-4100 ext 316 to discuss it. Sounds like we need to get them checked out. I have never heard on one actually doing this new straight from the box much less four and then the odds of all four of those ending up on the same car in would be difficult to calculate and unbeleivably small. Since every single KONI is dyno tested at the factory, we know that they worked beofre they went into the box.

Regardless, sounds like you have a problem and we need to get it checked out. Give me a shout and we'll get it checked out. Our HQ is just up the road in Northern KY by the Cinci airport.

 

BTW, we are talking about yellow painted KONI Sports and not the orangish, red KONI Specials (also called "reds") aren't we? If you don't compress them all the way to engage the adjuster, you can spin them until the cows come home.

Sorry OVRsi, didn't mena to steal the thread but wanted to clear the air and solve a problem if needed.


[Modified by CRX Lee, 4:13 PM 3/9/2003]

 

Yea, Koni Yelows.

So if i didn't "engage the adjuster" they'll never work? Or they'll just spin (while still controlling valving? I had them put on in a shop due to lack of workspace in College, and i just took them off again to put my GCs on (I wish i woulda known this then). Ugh. I know the valving changes, because at the auto-X the handling will change noticably with adjusting.

edit: Went outside and re-checked the turning just now. My roomate and/or I must have engaged adjuster or something when we put the GCs on. We did a 'compress test' on each shock to make sure it wasn't blown before putting them back in the car (if they moved too easily, we were going to assume it was blown). Anyway, now they sop after ~1.75 turns as it seems they should.

I remember at the autocrosses last season when i still had the NeuSpeed Sports, they'd spin for at least 3 rotations (to show people it wouldn't hit a stop). That was usually when i got scared and turned it back to ~1 rotation, or what setting i was trying that run. Anyway, sorry about that, I hadn't adjusted them since we put the GCs on (cold = no race = no adjust = ). Thanks for the interest and concern. to Koni and it's employees.


[Modified by Nacho169, 9:34 PM 3/9/2003]