Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you Carbotech Bobcat (1521): The latest in ceramic braking technology, and the result of a year long evaluation to develop a low dust, low noise, high friction, rotor friendly high performance street pad.

 

Excellent! Larry was strongly hinting about these last weekend at VIR. Can't wait to try them, Matt!

Jon
who knows that great brake pads (i.e. Carbotech brake pads)
are the difference between stopping and trying to stop

 

how do these compare to the P+'s?

(you knew it was comming.. )

 

Yes I did.

On the street:
MUCH less dust
MUCH less noise
MUCH less heat required to get into the high-friction zone.
Friction coefficient is ~.5-.55 over a broad temp range. These friction number have been dyno verified.

On the track:
Less bite and torque than the P+
Good to ~950-1000F (P+ is 1200F)

The testing this past weekend was so positive that we're going to create another formula to see if we can keep the excellent street qualities, but try to squeeze the P+ track performance out of it. Sounds impossible, I know. But Bobcat is almost there already...

 

Would you consider these similar to the Ultimates?
Pricing?

 

this is a much better pad than the Ultimates, from looking at the specs, IMO.

 

Performance wise, I think these kick the crap out of Ultimates. I've never taken Ultimates to the track, but after RJs experience, I will certainly not recommend it. The Bobcats were able to withstand instructor level (that's me) driving and repeated decels from 120+ mph going into turn one. No fade, no glaze, no crumbling of material, no smearing of material on the rotor. I just felt it wasn't quite up to the level of a Panther Plus in terms of overall track performance. With Panther Plus, I could generally wait until brake marker 3.5 at turn 1. With XPs, I got closer to marker 3. Bobcats, I was waiting until marker #4 with relatively little drama. In contrast, with something like EBC, I had to push my braking point back WAY beyond marker #5.

On the street, this material seems to need absolutely no heat in order to provide high levels of brake torque.

Price is a different story. As of right now, we're doing hand assembly (bond/rivet) like our Panther line. That's expensive. More so than Ultimates. I would say that prices would generally start ~$89, and if you have a big pad, like an M3, probably ~$119 or so. A little pricey for a street pad, but have you priced R4-S recently? Bobcat beats R4-S like a rented mule.


[Modified by MaddMatt, 11:37 AM 3/2/2003]


[Modified by MaddMatt, 11:41 AM 3/2/2003]

 

Hey matt... i dare you to take the integra out at CMP on ultimates. Then you can tell all your customers how bad they really suck on track

Now, my experience and viewpoint is biased. Had i not known any better i would say "wow, these brakes are nice" because they are definately better than OE, and make a fine street pad. I'm just used to a more track-oriented compound.

 

I wouldn't recommend anything less than the Panther Plus for CMP. Ultimates? HP+? R4-S?? Don't even THINK about it! Bring your best, or be prepared to have a frustrating weekend...

Edited for clarity of content.


[Modified by MaddMatt, 3:50 PM 3/11/2003]

 

Can I order a set of fronts for a '97 R this week?

 

I faded XP's on the lunchbox last august in the 110-degree noon o'clock heat.

 

Yes you can!

If you're waiting for me to be shocked, you'll be waiting a while. Nothing about CMP surprises me anymore. Especially concerning cars that have marginal brakes to begin with.

I dislike that track so much, I'm tenatively planning to not run there this year. I may extend that to "never ever again..."

Although, that would be one hell of a test for whatever we do with the Bobcat test formulas....

 

I expected it, and just dealt with it, i even ducted them. I really like the track but i could do without oppressive heat.

I'll be there in april. The technical section of the course is very challenging.

 

nice.


[Modified by Ross, 10:17 PM 3/2/2003]

 

As in.. ~$120 for an E36 M3? Any chance that larger scale production could significantly cut that price? I've been looking for a cermic-based pad for my M3 since I was really impressed with the low dust and performance of my old Nissin AEM pads on my Integra.

What kind of longetivity could be expected with mostly street use and the occasional DE? I'm interested in finding out how my Axxis Ultimates hold up to Road Atlanta. Of course, I'm sure I won't be driving at more than 8/10s or so(novice), but I've heard some stories of much lighter cars fading them, and I think my car will easily be over 3300lbs with me and an instructor.


[Modified by Def, 10:30 PM 3/2/2003]

 

Fronts and Rears? (or just fronts)
for 98+ ITR, that is.

 

Just as a counterpoint, I took my 3100 lb pig out to Jefferson Circuit in late July on Ultimates. Did just fine. A little crumbling on the edges of the pad after I took them off, but on track there was no fade. (I ran 1:02s btw, so I wasnt sunday driving)
I think RJ just doesnt know how to brake

I wouldnt recommend the Ultimates for the track, but they definately arent horrible, and wouldnt be bad for novice.

The bobcats look great though, if pricing is comparable to Ultimates, I would definately get a set for my next street pads



[Modified by elgorey, 2:46 PM 3/11/2003]

 

What a stunna.....

 

I thought you said that was a caliper or MC problem?

 

Matt,
Is it true y'all are coming out with some "Fat ( phat? ) Cats" fot tow vehicles like my 7500 # Dually with its 20000 # payload?
Also, what about the "***** Cats" for my beloved's TDI which she keeps foot limited to 50 mph?
Then there's always "Cool Cats" for street rods...
Hey, need any help marketing...?
Best to y'all!
Wildman

 

That was a pedal feel problem Fixed with new calipers.

 

So what do you guys recommend as a good pad for an intermediate driver at CMP? one who needs to work on threshold braking...

 

Panther+ in front, OE in rear. Bring spare OE's for front just in case.

 

What RJ said. A fresh set of Plus' should be more than adequate, but go ahead and get in the habit of having some OE-ish pads on stand by *just in case*. I've had to use the *just in case* pads to get home on more than once.

CMP is not to be toyed with. Forget any high-perf. street pad for CMP. I'm not kidding. Bring a damn good brake pad or you're begging for brake problems. Panther + is a damn good brake pad.

Update: My abusive driving of the Bobcats at VIR did show a weakness (which was the entire point, BTW). I got no fade and the car stopped every time from 120mph, but the material did glaze slightly. Therefore, I am not comfortable selling this pad for light-track duty, yet. Damn sure not going to recommend it for CMP.



[Modified by MaddMatt, 3:53 PM 3/11/2003]

 

I also hate CMP's track and although I went to the first national and did ok, I also think that may be the last time. It blows.

I love your sig line at the bottom, that is my old man Destroyed it by 3.5 in qualifying