OK so I went to my second HPDE of the year (and my life) last weekend and my instructor FINALLY let me shift out of third on the front straight....I hate driving for half the straight at 7 grand.

And as I'm sure you all know what goes up must come down. And of course I surged my car when I downshifted into the next turn.

So my instructor tells me thats what heel-toeing is for and goes into his explaination of matching revs and all. He also tells me that I should practice heel-toe on the street, which I totally agree with since I already had too much on my mind.

So I've been toying with reving the car as I brake before I downshift into a turn, but my instructor never really explained to me very well (or should I say, in as great of detail as I would like) exactly how to heel-toe.

I'd greatly appreciate any of you veteran road racers' methods on downshifting so that I can practice before my next event. I definately feel that I'm ready to take my driving a step up and I'd like to get the technique down before I try it on a track.

thanks in advance - Nick

 

Nevermind did a search (oh what a concept...i know)

Found a website http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.lasso
Really informative.

 

Call Tom Fowler at OPM. He is more than happy to discuss his technique. His method is simple, easily explained and duplicated.

 

can i call him too I want to know

 

Just give OPM a call. Just about everybody that works there has a competition license of some kind and are very familiar with Tom's technique. They will be more than happy to help you.

 

I use Tom's technique. I'm not nearly as fast as the professor, but I can vouch for the validity of the Fowler Rev Match (aka: FRM).

It has served me well so far.

 

care to elaborate on his technique. I'm curious

 

I can't figure out whether his technique is a joke or really awesome from reading this thread.

I've found I have a big problem with holding brake pressure while bliping the throttle. I think I'm at the stage now where it huts me more than helps me
Any tips for this specifically? or just do it another hundred times or two...

 

You are required as his student (SCCA Comp School) to at least be able to "understand" how to heel-toe just like he does. He's quite good at explaining it though so its something most of us were able to replicate in one session.


[Modified by phat-S, 3:06 AM 2/26/2003]

 

Why don't we save Tom a whole bunch of phone calls and one of you guys explain this for the folks.....I have a strange feeling the boys at OPM are running around like chickens with their collected heads cut off right now!

 

I know this problem.... You`re able to brake and blib the throttle, but it`s hard to hold and control the pressure... more practice, I would say..

I changed my tech a little bit to this:
I hit the brake pedal and touch the gas with the edge of the shoe.. So it`s more toe/edge shifting... (moving the right knee towards the shiftknob brings the edge of the right foot down on the gas).

Now there`s another problem: I don`t trust my braking in serious moments (means coming down a straight at hig speed to see a 90° curve with a wall around). If I slip from the pedal ==>





[Modified by ITR1858, 1:33 PM 2/26/2003]

 

I've noticed myself that it's hard to heel-toe when the steering wheel is at full-tilt down, in your lap.

Old habits are hard to break though...

 

If I remember correctly the term heel toe came from the old Ferrari F1 cars, which had the gas pedal in the middle and the brake on the right. So it was actually possible to use your heel on the brake and your toe on the gas in a natural position.

I can't imagine anyone actually using heel and toe on a Honda unless you're either barefoot, double jointed at the knee, or bend in ways I just don't.

 

I do the opposite of most. I brake with my heel and rev with my toe. I'm much more comfortable that way, and heel toe constantly on both the street and track.


Matt

 

Anyone seen those pedals specially designed to extend the throttle pedal to make it easier to reach during these right foot acrobatics.

WBB, who is too ***** to try this anywhere at at this point.

 

When I heel and toe, I have a problem of not being able to apply enough brake pressure to stop effectively because my big toe is on the brake while the right side of my foot blips the throttle. This causes me not to apply enough pressure. While this method works well on the daily street driving, when I really try to brake, I feel my car not stopping to its full potential.

 

Wait .. this is a trick right? Tom doesn't heal and toe and AFIAK, neither do you Scott.

 

The above concern plus many other possible little inconveniences must be all added up and compared to the benefits of heel and to see if it really benefits you instead of it being just a cool thing to do that may actually hurt your performance. It really is not a crime if you don't happen to heel and toe.

 

Ohh there's definitely a trick..... Scott knows the trick, but I'm afraid he won't give away any such “hot” information on a public board.

 

Exactly like I do... And that`s why I don`t really trust my tech in some situations...

 

bend the gas pedal toward the brake.
or get a cover that you bolt on.

 

I'm not tellin'
Some of my competition may be reading this board. Let 'em figure it out on their own.

 

I agree. I've never been able to catch on to the technique to any useful extent, but I've gotten pretty smooth at downshifting without it. If properly executed, I imagine there is a benefit, but I'm not sure it's enough to make a noticeable difference for me. The stock layout of most Honda's also makes it very difficult without making mods to the pedals. And of course the size of ones feet would make a difference also.
I get beat by guys that H&T, and I've beaten guys that do it. I don't think its a major factor in these cars to winning or losing, but I certainly could be wrong. Now left foot braking can be real beneficial if used at the right time.

 

Are you serious about using the "Big Toe"? Some ppl will say that "heel & toe" is a misnomer, because the technique is really "heel & ball of foot." I used to try to use the toes, but twisted my hip really bad in trying to apply enough brake pressure and reach the gas pedal.

Might be one of those links above that gives this tip, but start practicing the daily driving using just the right side of the brake pedal with the ball of your right foot, don't even worry about the heel yet. Then later as you get comfortable, start trying to reach for the gas with the heel while you brake. That worked for me, but I still have a long way to go to perfect the technique in any case.

Edit: another mistake on the technique name...


[Modified by Vitt1, 11:40 AM 2/26/2003]

 

The problem with using my heel is that there is not enough room for me to maneuver my legs. My knee keeps hitting the steering wheel column when I try to execute it that way. You would ask then why shouldn't I move my seat back? Well if I do that, then my arms are way too far from the steering wheel. Gotta love honda's eh? Also, by using my heel, sometimes it forces me to apply too much pressure to the brake pedal which ends up with the car jerking forward and thus defeating the purpose of heel and toe.