Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class?

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Feb 24, 2003 | 08:37 PM

bluesaint

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From: Bay Area, in the bay man, CA, USA

Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class?

Is it possible to win out them E36 M3's?

Note, i'm strictly speaking of cars, not skill of drivers.

I just want to know how competitive my car can be in SM class.

mods:
4.785FD LSD tranny
TypeR Front and Rear sway bars
Cusco zero2 coilover
willwood 4 pot in front
Big rotor brake kit in rear using 40/40 prop valve
1inch master cyclinder booster
victo racer v700 205's wide on 15inch rotas
No AC, no power steering,
10lb fiberglass FEEL's hood
Lightweight T1R battery.

[Modified by bluesaint, 5:40 AM 2/25/2003]

[Modified by bluesaint, 5:47 AM 2/25/2003]

Feb 24, 2003 | 08:43 PM

.RJ

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From: RIP Craig Jones

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

It can win locally with a good driver. It will not dominate anything, anywhere, unless the SM competition really sucks.

Not to say its a bad car but against 2.5L WRX's, A4s, and E36s....

Just go out and have fun anyways!

Feb 25, 2003 | 03:34 AM

Rodney

I forgot more about hondas then you will ever know....

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From: hop,skip, and a jump from the city,, new friggin york, USA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Quote:

Is it possible to win out them E36 M3's?

sure it's possible. i am trying my best to make it happen here on the east coast. but very tough, those s/c'd m3's are tough. not to mention that turbo neon.... and one particular s/c'd eg.

Feb 25, 2003 | 05:22 AM

jsi

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From: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Not dominate at a National level, but be competitive maybe...with enough cash... Try to get the weight down as much as possible withing the rules. Light wheels, both front seats, remove rear seat, etc, etc. You will need to run some serious custom spring rates (600+ f/R), custom valved shocks, some 225-45-15 Hoosiers are a must. Get the power in the 200-220WHP level AT LEAST. Then work on getting that power to the ground, this is THE key to a successful FWD SM car...

If a Neon can be competitive in SM, a Civic sure can. You just need to learn how to drive like Daddio...

Feb 25, 2003 | 05:27 AM

Crack Monkey

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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

The car would have to be at the minimum weight and be setup very well. And wider tires are a must (225x13 Hoosiers on 13x9 wheels). Add a quick spooling turbo and ECU for good measure.

Feb 25, 2003 | 05:58 AM

Evan55

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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

with a snail (+engine management and tuning), wide tires, and fully lightened it could have the potential to whip up on those pigs . It would take a hell of a lot of $$ though
SpendMoney

I wouldnt worry too much about the brake upgrades. Some grabby pads like ultimates should do you fine for autoX.

[Modified by elgorey, 10:03 AM 2/25/2003]

Feb 25, 2003 | 11:13 AM

The AntiRice

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From: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (elgorey)

I would just say no.

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Feb 25, 2003 | 11:17 AM

RineRacing

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From: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Dominate, never.

Win a national event, unlikely but possible.

Feb 25, 2003 | 11:29 AM

typer_801

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From: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (Geratol)

No. Too heavy, too slow, too little tire and FWD.

Feb 25, 2003 | 11:34 AM

#10

bluesaint

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From: Bay Area, in the bay man, CA, USA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Currently the hatch weighs 2010lbs with 185whp, corner weighted, height adjusted by custom alignment with camber. Just for information purposes only, i let my friend borrwed my hatch for a drag race event and it ran 12.6 1/4mile, so in terms of powers to get out of apex's, it should have enough, what I want to know is, what aspect of it isn't comparable or even better than say the current cars dominating SM in Topeka?

Feb 25, 2003 | 11:49 AM

#11

Crack Monkey

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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Civic:
2010lbs/185hp=10.9lb/hp

BMW with blower:
2800lbs/300hp=9.3lb/hp

If the cars can reach minimum weights it becomes:
1800/185=9.7lb/hp
2400/300=8lb/hp

The BMW can fit more tire and is RWD.

So, you need more power, more tire, and a kick *** driver to come close.

Feb 25, 2003 | 11:58 AM

#12

Warren

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Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (Crack Monkey)

Sharon and Corey's S4:
3400lbs/400+hp = 8.5

Plus they have an unreal launch at the Prosolo events.

Warren

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:06 PM

#13

bluesaint

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From: Bay Area, in the bay man, CA, USA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (Warren)

What about the extra braking abilities from being a light car? and the fact that with the lighter car, handling response can be faster? or do those not matter?

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:10 PM

#14

Evan55

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From: formerly elgorey, VIRginia

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

It has already been shown in STS that lightweight will overcome power deficiencies. IMO you have a real chance if you can put more $$ into the car. Are fender flares legal in SM? Get some 245s on dat bish.

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:17 PM

#15

owen_the_soyboy

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From: Rochester, NY

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Quote:

Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class?

of course it is.
I did... and mine isnt even a ITR powered hybrid.
Also, there are many other things besides powerplant that will allow you to be competitive in SM with a lightweight EG hatch... namely 13x8" wheels with fresh Hoosiers and the ability to drive very well.

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:36 PM

#16

jsi

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From: Montreal, QC, Canada

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Yeah, true, fender flares are allowed in SM.... Hmmm, flared fenders with 245 or bigger tires would be the ticket. Screw the 13x8 rims, those are great for 140hp cars. When you are pushing 200+whp and have the option of playing around with gearing, a wider tire is more important than the overall diameter plus the taller tires can put the power down better under acceleration. And last I checked, Hoosier does not make anything wider than 225 in 13"...

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:42 PM

#17

PseudoRealityX

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From: Atlanta, GA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Daddio got 4th with an overweight turbo Neon.

Subtract a few hundred pounds, add a double wishbone suspension, get rid of the turbo and add a supercharger, and it can run with the big boys.

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:47 PM

#18

Todd00

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From: OH

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (PseudoRealityX)

Quote:

Daddio got 4th with an overweight turbo Neon.

Subtract a few hundred pounds, add a double wishbone suspension, get rid of the turbo and add a supercharger, and it can run with the big boys.

Daddio could have driven a GS neon to a trophy position in SM. Not a good comparison for the sake of what car does well. The HART Civic with JRSC and a ton of other Honda tweaks only managed 9th (well back off the pace).

Remember that FWD will still be at a disadvantage to a RWD/AWD car. Only thing you can do to a FWD is get weight to the absolute minimum and stick as big as a tire as you can under the car (there will be a point when there is too much power vs traction and why I think a turbo is the wrong way to go). Only then will a FWD car maybe be able to win SM. And this is probably only for the next year or two until someone builds the ultimate lightweight RWD SM car. When that happens, watch out.

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:50 PM

#19

Todd00

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From: OH

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (elgorey)

Quote:

Yes, but when the max tire size is a 225 street tire on a 7.5" rim, it brings the field a lot closer together. In this aspect, weight will have an advantage when you can't put more tire under a car, like you can in SM.

Feb 25, 2003 | 12:55 PM

#20

PseudoRealityX

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From: Atlanta, GA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (Todd00)

Quote:

Daddio got 4th with an overweight turbo Neon.

Subtract a few hundred pounds, add a double wishbone suspension, get rid of the turbo and add a supercharger, and it can run with the big boys.

Daddio could have driven a GS neon to a trophy position in SM. Not a good comparison for the sake of what car does well. The HART Civic with JRSC and a ton of other Honda tweaks only managed 9th (well back off the pace).

Remember that FWD will still be at a disadvantage to a RWD/AWD car. Only thing you can do to a FWD is get weight to the absolute minimum and stick as big as a tire as you can under the car (there will be a point when there is too much power vs traction and why I think a turbo is the wrong way to go). Only then will a FWD car maybe be able to win SM. And this is probably only for the next year or two until someone builds the ultimate lightweight RWD SM car. When that happens, watch out.

And there's a guy in the NE who's beaten Daddio in a EG hatch a few times... name is Aaron IIRC.

Feb 25, 2003 | 01:00 PM

#21

Crack Monkey

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From: One by one, the penguins steal my sanity.

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (bluesaint)

Quote:

What about the extra braking abilities from being a light car? and the fact that with the lighter car, handling response can be faster? or do those not matter?

It does matter, but I'm not convinced it can overcome the power deficit on National-style courses (usually in big lots with quite a few high speed sections).

I'd still waiting for somebody to build a Pinto with a 351 or something similar.

Feb 25, 2003 | 01:04 PM

#22

CivicSiRacer

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Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (Todd00)

There's a rumor going around about a 1989 DX with a swap and supercharger going to compete this year

Feb 25, 2003 | 04:09 PM

#23

KekeK_5G

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From: Milford, CT

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (PseudoRealityX)

[quote]Daddio got 4th with an overweight turbo Neon.[QUOTE]

Quote:

And there's a guy in the NE who's beaten Daddio in a EG hatch a few times... name is Aaron IIRC.

I believe the guy your talking about is not Aaron, but Rodney, who posted earlier and has beaten Daddio a couple times in his EG HB.

Personally, running with rodney(ITR EG Si HB) and daddio and henry hoeh(3rd at nationals, sc'd E36), there is potential in the Civic to be competitive, but not dominant. Rodney and I are constantly right behind Henry and on a rare occasion in front of him. On another note, watching Mike Johnson take runs in Kevin Lau's turbo B18C1 Si EG is also pretty amazing.

My verdict, a properly setup EG HB can win Nats.

Feb 25, 2003 | 06:29 PM

#24

PseudoRealityX

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From: Atlanta, GA

Re: Is it possible for a TypeR powered EG hatch to dominate SM class? (KekeK_5G)

Quote:

Daddio got 4th with an overweight turbo Neon.

And there's a guy in the NE who's beaten Daddio in a EG hatch a few times... name is Aaron IIRC.

I believe the guy your talking about is not Aaron, but Rodney, who posted earlier and has beaten Daddio a couple times in his EG HB.

Personally, running with rodney(ITR EG Si HB) and daddio and henry hoeh(3rd at nationals, sc'd E36), there is potential in the Civic to be competitive, but not dominant. Rodney and I are constantly right behind Henry and on a rare occasion in front of him. On another note, watching Mike Johnson take runs in Kevin Lau's turbo B18C1 Si EG is also pretty amazing.

My verdict, a properly setup EG HB can win Nats.

Thats the guy!!

Yeah, dominate? not a chance win? sure.