I've been reading on this web site for a long time and after everything I've read/learned I still can't decide whether to swap in a b16a or go with the a6 and do alot of headwork to my a6. Exospeed says they sell 13 sec. (w/slicks) packages for under $2000, which consists of alot of head work. Whereas a b16a cost about $2000 after mounts and lsd, including myself doing the labor. I don't have to get into the 13's on street tires, I'd be happy with low 14's, but I'd like the availability to get into the 13's without too much more money. I'd also be able to sell the a6 also, so that'd probably save me some more money, but I just feel like it's a waste to get rid of the a6 when it feels so strong as it is in stock trim. So, if any of you have experience or advice, I'd kindly appreciate it. Thanks for your time.

And please let me know if there's another route, or if I have my figures wrong. Thanks!


P.S. I've searched too, but I haven't found a direct answer to my question, if there is one.


[Modified by Si-Yaaa!, 4:28 AM 2/11/2003]

 

I would go with a B20 with a B16 head or a LS witha turbo

 

http://www.hmotorsonline.com/shop/sc...age&item=30020

Buy that and set that up into your civic and you'll have low 13s-14s w/o a problem and its only $749! Then when you decide to get a little ambitious you can save up for a vtec head and make a b20/vtec

 

If you ever come out to an autox again you can take my car for a spin, should sway your decision pretty quickly.

-Todd

(ill trade u a drive in ur Si )

 

B16a with CTR cams and other basic mods I/H/E and you should be pretty low 14's

 

I think that b20 doesn't come with a tranny, correct me if I'm wrong. Plus I heard maintainy a b20/vtec is a bit more complex then a typical b16a, correct? But you do make a good point, plus there's probably mad torque .

And Todd, I would like to take a spin in your CRX, I am in the process of renewing my SCCA liscense right now, so I'll catch up with you later. But the turbo Si stays back at home, in SoCal where it's safe, sorry. But you could drive my 91 Si

So there's nobody that would keep the a6? This info is really helping me, it looks like the b-series swap is the way to go.


[Modified by Si-Yaaa!, 4:42 AM 2/11/2003]

 

im keeping my a6 but its not the most cost effective solution, fun though.

 

Do the D

 

i say do the d series with the head work....it will be an easy install, no mounts, wiring, trannies, etc. required. and if you ever want to go back to the stock a6, you can pick up a complete head for less than $100.

everyone says get a b-series it has more potential....more potential to spend more money.

 

i say keep the a6. if u arent looking for extreme performance down the road then y go for a b16. it is just going to be a money pit for parts. there are so many parts on the market u will be buying forever. plus everybody and there brothers mother has the b16. be different

 

Stick with the D! Check out dseries.org for a lot of good info on our engines. Bisimoto is running in the 10's with his all-motor 1.5L (far from street legal though!). Everyone should boycott the b's for awhile and bring those damn prices down!
BTW I might have a spare a6 head in a month or so....you can buy mine and port/polish/do whatever while you drive your stock one around!

 

Hey bro i was on the same boat as you a few months back.
If your on budget keep the D16a6 and let exospeed help you with the buildup.
If you want a fast little motor that will give people on the street a little heat go with exospeeds block and head. I personally have talked with Will and he's been very helpful with my questions. The D16a6 block from exospeed will basiacally feel the same from 0-3,00rpms but when you step on it, it'll pull like a raped ape. Fuel efficency should stay the same/....that is if you can keep your driving the same hehe

go for it bro. Everyone here want's a Bseires to be fast but start out slow and have fun learning while your at it. when your D16a6 power doesn't exsite you anymore you can sell it for well over $1500 if it's built & still running well.
HTH

 

does anyone know much amout exospeed? From their site it looks like they are selling only the block. do these perform well? does any one have one?

 

I'm also interested in hearing from people who have done business with them as I am considering giving them a large sum of money soon. They seem to have a good rep but I don't know anyone on this site who has one of their motors. I don't want to have to be a guinea pig.

 

haha that's what i have told Will. Right now there are trying to get their own dyno so that they can do thier own test vs. having to rent one by the hour. It is about time that they everyone what their motors can put out. (just like how Importbuilders PROVE they make the HP)
I'm not saying that Exospeeds motors are bunk or anything.. i would really like to see some dyno charts soon on thier website.

also they do all of their machining @ RSmachines.... (same people who work on the some of the pro's cars.


will were you at bro? Hollla back yo!
I'm trying to speak-out for

 

yea, i've heard good things on the net in small doses, but i would really liek to get an in depth idea/understanding what they are able to produce. i am interested in the d blocks b/c it's different, i also think that it would be fun to smoke foo's in a non-vtec a6, but seriously i'm sure they do good work i just want more info.......

 

I hear ya callin’?
I know I know, we haven’t come out with the dyno numbers yet. I would like to show some dyno numbers that we did in the past and some done on the IB dyno. Look into the importreview.com dyno pages. On the 1.6L section is one of our dyno runs on a 3 year old motor D16A6 motor with about 120K miles on the motor. Its labeled as a “B16A6” on the site(typo). Other than that, I am working on uploading some scanned dyno runs of other customers’ cars that they have sent back to us. Sorry for the delay, we just have so many projects going on at the same time its hard to keep up. While IB is a good friend of ours, its hard to get to his area to get some dyno runs for our stuff. I have access again to another dyno facility so we should have some #’s up soon.

As far as the question about the D16A6 build up or the B16, honestly, its all up to you and no one else should really persuade you on what motor to do. I never PUSH a customer/friend on choosing a type of motor to build up on. All I do is back them up on whatever they choose. Fortunately, we are aware of the potential of the D, B, H , and soon the K series and F22. I know many shops are limited to just the B series and what does that say regarding their knowledge. So decide based on what you plan to do later on and what you will use the car for. Let’s say you are just going for road racing use in the future and not really planning to go All All out on the motor. A head package with our special cam is good enough. A typical D16A6 can get up to 140HP to the wheels and 115 Tq. Compare that to some B16s, they aren’t even getting that type of TQ. But on the other hand, if you are going for daily driven 11 second time slips, I’d go with a B series, specifically a 1.8L block with VTEC head and not a B16 block.

So its all preference and budget. Back in the day when I started out in the scene in the early 90’s, I was a student who can barely afford a swap and that’s why I stuck with the D16A6 and tried to learn as much about it as I can. I didn’t want to be left out of the scene and I wanted to race. So I did what I could with what I had. Some of you may be in the same situation, so why not give the D a try. If you know you’ll come up with more money later on, then maybe a B series is a good choice also. All I’m trying to say is, we leave it up to you. Whatever you want to build, I’ll find a way to work with your budget and recommend to you the most cost efficient build up with the budget you have.

Wil

SOHC power! Watch out for some crazy SOHC stuff coming this spring.
Also Bisimoto race headers will be sold through Exospeed.com

 

A properly built LS/Vtec would be the way. My buddies fully built, STREET DRIVEN LS/vtec runs 11.90 on the bottle in a 97 4dr Teg. That motor would be scream in an EF. He is selling it if there is a buyer. But I think he is looking to get like $6 or 7k for it. Any how. Good luck with whatever you do. I'm going through the same dilema right now. Turbo the Sohc or dump it and build up a B series

 

As I always say,
EXOSPEED
But i heard they might be tied in with al-quida
Wil knows his ****, as do RS machines-Rich was puttin the D's in the 13's back when the B-series swap was in it's infancy.
Wil was racing D's before I had armpit hair (I'M 22 NOW!!! )

 

Thanks exospeed-one more ? for ya; I will need my car to last as a daily driver, but I would liek power. now i love the b series motors, but I would be proud to have a quick A6. Is it obtainable to have a high 13 second daily driver Hatch utilizing the A6? And, I would prefer all motor. Thanks!

 

as far as daily driveability, my own CRX HF. so advantage with the weight, daily driven for 5 years, and still got 35mpg. best time was 13.6 @99mph. and due to limited funds, stayed at 13.6 for 3 years hehe. the good thing was that the MPG wasnt sacrificed and I was happy for what I had. it was fun to drive and I knew I didnt put that much money into it. I dont think I'll ever have another stock A6 though... the stuff I can do to it at a limited budget just puts a modified A6 in a diff class from a stock A6.

Wil

 

so it is theoretically possible? What all would need to be done? And can you give a ballpark estimate on cost. I will not hold you to the cost, I would just liek an idea. Thanks again!!!!

 

ya for about $1500 on a complete headwork with cam, cam gear, new guides, valve job, valvetrain, valves, cam seal, port/polish, match ported manifold, Throttle body. and your basic bolt ons, its possible. thats all I had.. no bottom end work.. stock 9.6:1 compression bottom end.

Wil

 

preciate it.

 

Wow, alot of info - good stuff! In the beggining of this thread I was sure about a b-series swap, but now that all this d-series stuff came about, it's pursuading me. I'd like to spend no more than $2,000 when the time comes (Summer). And all I hear is good stuff about the LS/Vtec but how much does that swap cost? And lets say I did get all the headwork for $1500 from exospeed, what's next after that, an all motor block? And would all that money spent on a built d-series block and headwork put me ahead of a b-series swap with the same funds put into it? I'd like to spend $2000 in May, and then maybe the following year spend another $1000 or so, and then who knows. So I don't want to be limited in performance, ya know?
Thanks for all this great info, and I the cool thing about the a6 is its different, and I respect that But vtec is pretty tight too!