Please keep this thread about hte topic ... for hte h22a motor in a normally aspirated combination...

i have some crower probillet i-beam rods on the way.... and i`m curious most people say stick with stock rods, others say eagle, importbuilders say `probe`.. i`m kinda confused... if you use heavier rods will you loose power, if so (low end or top end)...

has this been proven or just hypo talking...

i`d like some feedback...

I only wanted the crowers incase i overrev it .. and people on turbo only use these rods and are classified one of the best so i figured these would also be good in a normally aspirated as well....

what`s your comments...

did i do well or not...

can these rods suffer normally aspirated up to 9500rpms (if i install the TWM`s)....

what`s you opinions on these rods and compared to others ... remember h22a bottom end, not h23 or if this matters..

thanx guys !

-H

 

two words .. ligther rods is what matters, along with that lighter pistons, so get vustom lightweight and it'll rev a lot quick period

greg

 

Sorry... might not be of much help as I'm trying to figure out the same thing with my build up, but I've heard of Cunningham rods to be the shitz.. They are definitely a pretty penny..

But I figure.. any aftermarket rod should be stronger and better than stock, NO??? Less rotating mass means the engine would have to work lesser to create more power.

 

exactly.... less weight is better... if you are willing to try aluminum rods, BME makes them for the h22. if not pauter makes great rods. they are cheaper then the cunninhams and are all you will need for an NA motor.

 

pauter rods are strong, but are way, way too heavy

 

Oliver makes Titanium Rods...super light, but they supposedly stretch more than steel. Not to mention they are outrageously expensive.

Suprdave

 

seanz makes some light stong rods and ive been using them for about 3 years and daily driven no problems

 

We have some custom rods....used in our all motor Acura. Let us know if interested.

 

I think I have the lightest H22A rods here of all the major manufacturers.

They torque to 38 foot lbs also. So the rod bolts are good too.

They are pretty light. Of course, you could pay cunningham to make you lighter ones, that are for sure better, at 2x the cost.

Jeff

 

What kind of pricing are we looking at here for these light weight rods?

 

so am i going to loose alot of power from stock rods to `crower pro-billets`???

how much we talking 1-2hp or like 5-8hp .. or shouldn`t matter.

 

Come on guys ! i`m sure you guys have info about this... Jeff (importbuilders etc)

i know this might be a bit of a trade secret but you can always let one slide...

haahah...

did anybody weight the stock h22a rods (92-96) and the Crower Pro-Billets... to see how much difference might their be...

and if weight is a factor... then if they are light you would get more power up top, but if you have more weight for rods then you would have more momentum for torque then... is this right or not.. (meaning more heavy more torque.. less weight more rpm) makes sense or i`m on the wrong track here..

thanx guys ! for all your help in advance!

-H

 

Noone has done a TON of research on H22a...well not enough to quote facking Rod Weights off the top of their heads...

Same thing as with the D-Series...the info isn't as plentiful as with Bseries.

How bout you go out and find this info for us, and report back to the community instead of waiting for someone to spoon-feed it to you.

Suprdave


[Modified by Suprdave, 10:09 PM 1/19/2003]

 

Well Suprdave... i was a simple question.. i'll wait till i have my rods and i'll tell you.... mind you i don't have any sepereate h22a rods.. right now.. their pressed with perfectly good pistons.. so i could weigh the crowers when they arive.. (momentarily)

thanx for your worthless bandwith eating reply

-Gilles

 

im not 100% sure, but 99% sure...

That the light Prelude VTEC rods I have are like...:

480 grams each, with bolts in them.

Thats like 50-60 grams lighter than Eagle.

Jeff

 

To me.. weigh wouldn't be as important as reliability. What's the weight of stock rods? Just for comparison.

 

when i look at it... every metal has stenght... under force.. when being pushed down you don't want to bend, and when on the overlap stroke you don't want the piston to weight to much and break the rod under the non pressured piston...

so a rod that weights more either it's because their more metarial so it won't break and harder to break bend than a lighter version.. i know that lighter metals may be stronger but with strenght comes britle... and will rather break than bend....

i took crower because of the solid beam designed for downward pressures and when on the overlap stroke plenty of meat to hold it in place when bringing the piston down again.. and create the suction effect...

'm trying tofind out the ratio from ligher to heavy ratio and why ....

come on guys !!

details

 

Honestly, I feel like the strength of rods are a non-issue. Every forged rod is very strong because the force being put on a rod is no WHERE NEAR what the material is capable of holding.

This rod is stronger, this rod can take more HP, blah blah blah...

Eagle rods...for example, with the weakest rod bolt on the market, only torquing down to a mere 28 PSI for example.

These rods, with these bolts have seen almost 40 PSI on my dyno and made 700+ WHEEL Horsepower with ease. No rod failure. For a long time, dragged...to proove it.

This is because the stress by that 700 HP motor is nowhere near the maximum stress that rod has been tested at.

And I believe that the majority of these rod failures you hear about are due to 1 reason:

Bearing failure. If the bearing is too loose, it will cause EXTREME force to be put upon the rod. And under boost, you don't get rod knock, you get....
"the bearing is becoming too loose, then you got a rod through the side of your block"

Bearing failure. If the bearing is installed at the proper spec, using a HONDA bearing, then the actual stress on the rod is minimul compared to what it can take.

Alot of people knock lots of brands of rods....and its a waste of time, because the majority of the rods on the market are good.

Crower comes out with econo-billets. Because my opinion is its too expensive to make rods in the USA perhaps? Maybe? So eagle has rods made in like china or something..and the price is 1/2. Yes, the rod is not as good.

But is good enough, good enough? There is a degree of "good". Crower would be just called:

Better.

Jeff

 

For that reason jeff, my complete bottom end received only FACTORY OEM bearings, the stock crank has been micropolished and the bearings have perfect clerance. (PERFECT) also for that bearing failure.. some say it's caused by other factors such as the oilpump.. so i took the liberty of getting my "Prodrive usa" gears.. so my bottom end is pretty much GARANTIED to take the abuse i put to it... I do have Crower proBillet rods, and Will be using 11.0 TYpe-s pistons 0.25 with honda only rings (new).... now what a was refering to is this is my normally aspirated block setup.. I want it to last my 8500rpm reving and be reliable so i opted for kinda the best or pretty close for a non sponsored motor or car.....

why question was basically will this heavy rod (we'll soon know) cause a loss of power compared to my stock rods.. because of the added weight, or not really, if so will i loose power up top, or down low, it's irrelevant or well subjective...

I went this way because if i did decide to go turbo then i have proven components, change the pistons and turbo and well i have a problock.. well i'll need to get the pistons rebalanced for the crank but no biggy...

so i guess nobody that builds motor actually think of these things or if they do.. you don't want poeople to know... if you do wanna tell and no publicaly i an't stoping you from clicking a PM.....

thanx for the input i'm sure others would also like to know.

-H

 

If your asking for a dyno comparison. I doubt any one is willing to build a high ouput prelude motor and tune it, then tear it down and rebuild it to compare lighter rods. It would just be stupid. Ask any engine builder of any type of motor, lighter rods rev higher and make more power. Think of it this way, if you spin less weight your loading the bottom end less so you need less stregnth. As Jeff said any aftermarket rod is more than capable of handling a n/a apllication. If your using stock pistons, I would use stock rods with some good engine balancing and careful bluebrinting as insurance for the high revs. If you plan on going turbo, then you need to build a motor for turbo.

 

well i wanted a tougher motor that wouldn`t let go to the added power from my mods ... so i got a nice set of crower probillets.. so for fun i attached them to my type-s pistons...

one one side i have type-s pistons, (rings on) attached floating pin and clips with the crower rods and bolts and cap...

the other side stock jdm h22a rod (with rod bearings) and no rings with a 10.6 cr jdm pressed piston (no rings)

weighed both of them... one side factory jdm h22a parts, other side Crower Pro rods with oversized type-s pistons attached...

i thought the crowers were going to be super heavy..

Bullshit!

the oversized type-s and crower pro billets were 80grams lighter than the factory h22a rods i had before....

the crower probillet is almost twice the width of the stock rod!!!!!!!!

contender was a 92-95 rod and piston... so i`m about the same weight and a bit lighter so i can`t loose any previous power that i would have had if i kept my stock rods... now i feel much safer at any RPMS!!!!

if these break... i don`t want to think of what my stock ones would have done...

crower gets a thumb UP !!

so now i`m ready if i ever go turbo... simply yank out the pistons, put lower compression ratio ones a new headgasket and 2 hour later a turbo motor from a normally aspirated one.

-H

 

Well... you say lower compression.. but what kind of pistons forged or OEM ones? If you're going forged... you'll need to resleeve the block.. That'll take a little longer than 2 hours

 

Sounds like you made up your mind before you posted. A lot of rebutable engine builders gave advice but you decided otherwise. have fun

P.S. In case you misunderstood what I said in my last post. I was recomending stock rods with stock pistons. It sounds like your on a bugdet if your using stock pistons. If cash is limited then it is better spent on parts other than crower rods. If you planned on investing in aftermarket pistons then I would get the lightest rods I could find for n/a. There are many rods lighter than crower.

 

too much of a good deal to pass up (RODS).... eventually this all motor thing is a phase out.. many people have B series turbo`s around here.. i think some day they will have to be tought a lesson... all i need to do is change pistons and remove my stage 3`s the rest of the valve trains is perfect.. how hard is it to put stock cams for a while and get a couple turbo parts.... (NOT THAT MUCH)

besides.. i`ll run this summer all motor , winter i`ll pull my race motor out.. drop a stock h22 for winter and have this one sleeved and then shop for pistons and a turbo kit ... now hows that for a plan..

cheaper to sleeve and buy pistons than everything i allready got for all motor use...

prodrive, crower dual springs, tit ret. portflow head, other goodies i`ll be ready...

but i was mostly concerned if these turbo rods would go against my n/a Test h22a motor this summer

hey my last motor was a stock GSR.. my next one is a fully built h22a going into an EK.. and ive yet to find to drive an ek with na h22a to start with so it should be pretty impressive!!

=0)

that`s the plan anyways

-H

 

NA stock H22 in Ek.. you're looking at low 14s, high 13s