especially how you guys love to rev those motors ...

Here are some old pics of the new products yet to come out from Z10 ... I will also be using these in CHEETAH.

Jimmy is still finalizing some of the stuff but here are some of the things that these guys have done ...

Greg

 

Nice. is that a vacuum pump that big black thing? but looks real nice

 

WOW.
That girdle looks wild.

 

its an oil sump kit ... helps tremendously for high revving/big load motors.

The girdle is the new 5 bolt main girdle, pictured is the b20/LS/B16a/B17a girdle ... GSR/ITR is similar except it has same height on all journals ...

Jimmy (engineer who does the designing and programming in CNC machine) brings incredible experience and technology from motor cycle racing as well as circle track which Rob (owner) has been winning for sometime.
Jimmy was also the designer for the original 3 main and traction bar system...

Greg

Greg

 

nice oil pump

 

I thought Geoff designed the original traction bars?

Ut oh...I see conflict imminent.

Suprdave

 

i did.

i know jimmy is a nice guy, but an engineer? I didnt know he had a degree. Whens the last time rob was winning? Last i heard he got flipped over the wall at the track.


[Modified by FFgeoff, 8:31 PM 1/8/2003]

 

speaking of the Z10/FFgeoff traction bars........ anyone know of anyone that makes similar bars for the BB6 Prelude?

 

Didnt Arvin have his hands on it too Geoff?

art

 

yeah arvin did the pickup points on the crx design (the one that wasnt messed up). rob gave me the idea for how to capture the heim on the lower control arm, i designed it on the welding table with my laptop, and i did the twin tube design that makes the part overbuilt

the 92+ was mostly me and rob helped do the pickup points. In retrospect, those points are very, very wrong.

i would have kept quiet if you didnt say that jimmy was the designer of the traction bars. Remove that from your post, greg and ill remove my posts.

 

This dont look like its gonna work.How you gonna get the timing belt around the water pump and the cam gears? unless your using a 1/4" wide timing belt or something ..got me.



[Modified by D-Man, 12:14 AM 1/9/2003]

 

Uhh Oh, here we go again with all the Z10 drama..........

 

ummmmmmmmm????


[Modified by 1320in11, 6:12 AM 1/9/2003]

 

The stock oil pump housing is removed and the block is modified. The holes for the pump and everything look welded shut. They are no longer needed. I am assuming that the crank is stock (or at least based on stock) and utilizes the original oil pump drive off the crank for the Sump. Correct me if Im wrong. Nice setup, Ive seen one before on a Jap F2000 open wheel racing motor. Very good for flow of oil and keeps oil out of the cranks way.


[Modified by FULLTHROTTLE, 10:04 PM 1/8/2003]

 

i like it... my only question is what if i want to run an alternator?

 

no he wasnt

 

yup, thats pretty much it, Jimmy will know the details, just email them at Z10 ...

As for the timing belt, they are working on a single belt to run the entire system including the sump, plus extra length for those with decked blocks ... this was an old picture which was meant to show how it looks .. its progressed since. A few of the Pro Honda guys have alrady been in contact with them to get the setup for their new cars.
At PRI Duttweiler really liked it as well, he said "this is the first time I've seen it done RIGHT"

Also,
I'm not gonna start a pissing match about who designed what vs. who claimed what ... Z10 is a business of professionals who put products on the market from spec sheets and papers and are constantly designing more and more technical products for racers ...
to argue, go there are argue with Rob and Jimmy not on this page, we're all grownups ... arguing on a page is childish IMO ... so don't expect a reply from me, MODS if this gets out of hand, LOCK IT PLEASE !!!

thanks,
greg

 

Look, these are the facts. 1 geoff designed the traction bars.2 Jimmy is not an engineer. 3 I am not saying rob is not a good driver, but he has not been winning races. 4 Geoff is not arguing simply stating fscts like I am now.If anyones curious how I know it's because the original jig was made on my car. This would not have happened if you had your facts straight greg.


[Modified by 60dash1, 7:41 PM 1/9/2003]

 

Quick question, what does some guys driving ability have to do with anything? Geoff designed the radius arms. ok. Is there a need for anymore of a statement then that? Gregs trying to show off some of their projects, not start a debate..

and nice username nOOb.

 

yeah that pretty much sums it up... thanks.

greg all you had to do was to take that out instead of crying to the mods. I would have happily removed my coments. calling some guy whos machine shop is in a barn behind his father's old house and where no one has an engineering degree is hardly "professional."

 

If the traction system is so shitty, then why even claim/fight over responsibility for them. If Z10 wants to say it is there design, and it's so shitty, why fight over it?

Usually when you work for a company, and you develop a product for them while working there. That is said company's idea. They get your intellectual rights while you are working there.

 

when will the oil pump be for sale to the public???

 

i'd like to know about that new girdle..... i know geoff had a post about making one similar, but regardless, when will someone have one like that? i didn't even use a girdle when i built my LS/VTEC but want to add one, and i would much rather have a full cap bridge like on my Prelude rather than one for just the 3 center caps

 

they should already be available .. contact z10.

greg

 

Well, I guess I need to clear few things up here.First I did not design the Radius arms for the Civic or the CRX's nor have I ever claimed to,the internal engine parts are mostly what I do,as for not having my degree, that was my choice for not finishing school(3 years at NJIT), but when you get a call from a Winston Cup team like the ones at Hendrick Motorsports, you tend to pack as fast as you can and get there and that is what I did, do I regret it? NO, I have been in racing my whole life, I have been a professional race engine builder for 15 years,in that time I have built or tuned engines(both car and bike) that have won 3 championships , 2 track records,41 career wins, engines that have been used to win 2 rookie of the year honors, involved with development work which has netted 20 and counting NHRA stock , superstock and prostock motorcycle national records, did work for Ford Motor Company on engine durability,Dynojet on jet kit development,and too many more to list.Currently I work for 2 companies ,Z10 and CFM doing 5 axis CNC cylinder head porting.So enough about me, getting back to the the reason I even posted,and I do not have the time to even spend on this,but to answer the questions which were posed, FEA is a great tool and that is what it is a tool,you still have to understand what it is telling you,as for ours never having been through an FEA program, it was run through by a friend of mine,whose father owns an engineering firm in NYC, and they have to their credit built seven of the worlds largest container ships, so they know what the FEA is showing them,but you know what we found?They could only see induced stresses from making it,but they were minamal and no way around them as we had to cut it from a solid block, to see its stresses in a loaded condition we had to do an entire engine to see where the forces were coming from and what order they were,so do you know what won out? Experience,from being around race engines similar to what I had to design,what I went with when I had did it was the best way, so drawing from all of the engine failures I had seen in the past and knowing why they failed is what I drew from.As for FEA not being needed,not the case, it does cut down on the trial and error time waste,but it is not fail proof,want proof ? look at Formula 1. All the teams use it and parts still break, I'll give you a little story about a failure of an engine part, the part we are going to talk about is a titanium valve spring retainer, one of the teams I used to work for,makes most of the parts for their engines, why? because they can, they have anything they need right in house,currently there is 400 employees,with 20 engineers on staff, 5 in the engine shop alone. So anyway they have been raising the rpm ceiling of the engine(2 valve push rod),they have managed to get the engine to run 500+ miles at 9600 rpm for an entire race. So in the course of doing this they came up with a new design for the retainer which removed all non critical mass from it using FEA to find the points, they put them in the engine and off they go,at Kansas everything is wonderful one of the teams wins the race and the other 5 engines all finish in the top 15, next race is Talledega,restrictor plate race,rpm here with the plate is 6800 rpm so everything should be fine,WRONG!! all six engines fail in the first 100 laps,all have the same failure, retainer is gone, it destroyed itself,reason being the valve train was generating some harmonics in one particular rpm range that the engine was sitting in and the mass that was removed from the retainers was what kept them from failing in that fuss point before, the FEA wasnt run at that load cycle so it never showed up, the mass reduction looked good at 9600 but not at 6800 rpm,so what happened here was,no consideration was given to experience, they went purley on the engineering data,they were also the only teams to have this failure during the entire race.So this should clear up what FEA is and isnt capable of. Now for the person who asked about the belts on the oil pump everything fits the stock cam belt drives the cams the pump belt is behind it, the pump can be a combination of pumps, single stage oil only or oil with vacuum pump also as far as the alternator goes I have 2 new mounting points for it, it is just a matter of which one will win out,also the pump can be mounted on either side of the engine depending on application. There is more to the system and why the pump is driven from where it is ,which is not in the pictures but anybody who went to the PRI show back in November knows what I'm talking about.Sorry this got so long, if anyone has any questions post them I guess I'll try to get on here more, or call me at Z10 732-922-2309 Thanks again Jim