Im still trying to make my mind up on spring rates to order from Ground Control. I rode a hatch with koni yellows and ITR stock springs. I like the spring rates, but it would be better if it was stiffer. Would 350F/350R good? I also drove one with 350F/400R and i didnt like it, it was too overstreer happy. So, any opinions would be nice.


[Modified by JohnDenver, 7:38 PM 12/29/2002]

 

I'm not the most knowledgeable when it comes to suspension set ups, but there are lots of factors that would affect a decision like that. Is your car a Civic hatch too? Is the car going to be used for track only? I know there are ppl on this road racing board that would say 350 is too soft for a track dedicated car. I'm a beginner track driver, and will soon order GC with around 500F and 500 or 525R for an Integra GSR.

Experienced drivers might not think a certain car is too tail happy because they know how to control it, so maybe that was your subjective opinion on that particular car after driving it. What size sway bar did the hatch with 350/350 have? What kind of shocks, and what were the shocks settings? Does your car have a stock suspension? Maybe that's why your friend's felt tail happy. In fact, in a FF car, many choose higher rear spring rates to balance the car out.

The best thing is to do a search, because this topic has been covered many times over.

 

lol, nice username. Stay away from airplanes

 

I have previously run 315f and 400r w/suspension techniques rear sway bar. This can be tail happy but is tamed by shock settings. Of course with only 315f the front end was diving too much in hard turns (autox), so I changed to 400f and 550r. I have not run on this setup yet though. The higher the spring rates the less roll and the more dependent on grip the car becomes.

This is on a 92 Si BTW.

 

Yeah, what he said. More info needed -- e.g., what year and model? what other mods currently on the car or planned for very soon? what kind of wheels and tires? daily driver? for autocrossing? for HPDEs? for both? how much competitive driving experience do you have? Even still, there are no universal truisms about what will work best for you. Your particular and driver preferences have a lot do with it. Also, many if not most would suggest that you keep the car stock for a while and learn to drive it that way if you're new to the autocross/HPDE world...

edit: I kan't schpell...


[Modified by Neo, 7:27 AM 12/24/2002]

 

A softer spring rate doesn't necessarly mean you can't go autocrossing, nor road racing. If you are just starting out you don't have to get the best race setup.

I just attended my first HPDE a few days ago, and I have 200F, and 180R GC spring rates. They are very soft. I also have Koni Yellows, rear sway, and front/rear strut bars. The car handled very well, and had minimal body roll. People usually frown when they see my spring rates, but the car did pretty well on the track for what it is.


[Modified by 96 SOHC VTEC, 1:25 PM 12/24/2002]

 

Its a 94 hatch with GC off the self kit, Del Sol VTEC rear sway and LCA's. I have koni yellows, but im not putting them in untill i buy new spring rates. I like the ITR stock spring rates 250 front and rear, but it would be better if it was stiffer. So i thought 350 all around would be good. This is for auto-x and daily driver.

 

So, any recomendation on what spring rates to use? I want to be able to rotate my car when i want, but i dont want to oversteer when im not trying to oversteer. If anything i might get 400 fronts and rears just to try it out.

 

Do some searching and you will find this has been discussed many times before.

Spring rates are just part of the equation that makes the car handle a certain way. sway bars and camber setting can change the oversteer/understeer. People here who autocross and roadrace generally go with the stiffer rears to force the rear tires to take more of the load when cornering. Without the proper allignment/camber it can become very loose, neutral, or still understeer.


[Modified by 6ghatch, 3:01 PM 12/29/2002]

 

I have searched. Not much help. Stuff that was said in past post, i already know. I already have GCs but i want a stiffer rate to go with the koni yellows i bought. Im not really looking for hlep, im looking for a thumbs up or something like that, for people that have run 400 front and rears.

 

search the archived posts and for archived posts created by RR98ITR. Digest for a few hours....

 

Thanks for the useful reading. But i already read simular thing like that. I guess im just going to get 400 front and 400 rear spring rates unless i get to test drive other set ups. Ill also buy a extra pair of 350 springs so i can experiment with 400f/400r VS 350f/400r VS 400f/350r. Oh well i guess ill have to figure it out myself.

 

"6ghatch" makes a good point. You can also control over/under steer with adjustable shocks like Konis. Check "krshultz" post on this this thread and how by changing the control arm bushing, it changed the handling, AND how by adjusting the rear shocks he was able to decrease tendency for oversteer:

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=366734


[Modified by Vitt1, 5:41 PM 12/29/2002]

 

450f and 500r seems to work great in my car (96' Hatch)

eric

 

We need to know what you want to do with the car, what kind of car it is, and what your experience level is.

But ignoring all that. ITR rates are less than 250 front and rear with higher rates in the front. Going to 350 is a major change and if this is a street car that sees occasional auto-x use than 350 might be too rough riding for you. If you use the car primarily on track and autocross and only drive it on street to get to events than 350 might be a little low.

Ask more precise questions to get more precise answers

 

Most springs have a degree of error. By this, I mean that if a spring manufacturer's tolerance is 3%, then a 350 could actually be 360, and a 400 could actually be 388. That doesn't leave you with much of a change. This problem intensifies as spring rates increase. Unless you have had your springs rate-checked, or trust the manufacturer to build to a certain tolerance, I wouldn't worry about swapping springs that are just 50 lbs apart.

[edit] btw... I run 500/550 currently on a 93 hatch w/b-series swap, using GSR front sway and 22mm rear. This setup feels nice, but I do not daily drive this car and would not run rates this high if I were. I know others on here run this high or higher on the street though.


[Modified by JeffS, 11:15 AM 12/30/2002]

 

From what I've read the ITR rates are 246F Linear, but the rears are progressive and are between 140 to as high as 246, so it takes less force for them to begin compressing. The H&R OE on my car now are also linear F and progressive R, which comtributes to understeer. AFAIK the Ground Controls are all linear.

 

Funny you're having trouble with oversteer on 350f/400r setup. I'll bet you're on street tires. Are you tuning the suspension for race tires or street tires?

I've got 300f/400r on my 98' hatch and I wish it had more oversteer (even with the rear shocks at full stiff + 19 mm ST rear sway bar). BTW, I run 225/45/13 Hoosiers. Front end dive is also pretty bad. I'll be switching to a 400f/600r setup soon. A friend recently did and I was surprised to find that street driveability didn't suffer much *relative* to my setup.

 

You have no oversteer cause those darn bias ply hoosiers have to much grip!!

BTW, I went with 400f/550r, unlike your friend.

 

Hmm i thought ITR is 250 progressive front, and 250 linear rear, and ground controls are semi-progressive?

 

Azenis

 

GC sells eibach springs, which are linear rate (the 2.5" ID springs that fit on their sleeves that is)

 

>>BTW, I went with 400f/550r, unlike your friend.<<

Yeah, but you're gonna be on stickies this year too. Our friend did "smite" people on his 400/600 setup this fall, at least when the pavement was warm. And you have more weight up front than he does (i'm assuming... does a B20 weigh much more than a B16?).

So when are you boosting the B20? Gotta catch those !@!$#!$ M3's somehow...

 

choosing your spring rate will be highly driver dependant, grip dependant, and weight/weight distribution dependant. your tire pressures can also dramatically effect how much your car oversteers. last year on my car (93 coupe) i used 600fr/500rr on azenis and successfully spun the car on no fewer then 6 occasions. start out at 400#'s all around and see how you like it. then change from there.

nate

 

Thats the plan right now.