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Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping

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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 04:42 PM
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Default Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...p?ArticleID=51

cheers
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

VERY COOL!
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 05:41 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (BABY NSX)

it says u have to log in
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 05:44 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (GSR)

it says u have to log in
Wheres the confusion here?

Register.


A.
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (1GreyTeg)

if anyone has the stage 2 and stage 3 Crane cams duration at 0.04 in. or 1mm valve lift that would be great. (yes, yes I know... 1mm = 0.0394 in. but I rounded to 0.040 in. to make it simple)

My goal next year is to get you the ABDC closing spec on the intake cams to help you determine if you need to upgrade the piston dome to recapture some cylinder pressure due to a loss caused by the intake valve being open too long with a wilder cam.

the interesting thing here are the European Cat cams which make the Honda BTCC road racing cams . As we see from the Toda Killer cams and these Cat cams, lift and duration specs don't tell the whole story.

The other European VTEC cam manufacturer is Schrick but I have not been able to get the specs fromt heir road racing cams yet.

cheers

LSA (overlap) specs and camshaft major intensity (indirect indicator of ramp) will need to be updated.

more work but it's a start.







[Modified by Michael Delaney, 10:55 PM 12/23/2002]
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 06:27 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

Damnit I need to get my password back....
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 06:47 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

has anyone here tried these Prototype racing rocker arms?

if you were in the market for cams but didn't want to actually get cams, changing the rocker arm ratio is an old domestic hot rod trick. Bseries VTEC cams vary from 1.50-1.55 roacker arm ratios but racing rocker arm ratios can be as high as 1.8-1.9. So whatever lift and duration your current cam has, a modified rocker arm ratio can increase those specs proportionately. Just not a common cheap trick in the import scene I guess. We like spending $1000-1500 on headers and cams. The domestic guys must laugh at the prices we forkk out compared to them.

http://www.prototyperacing.com/rocker.htm






While Honda achieved their goal of producing an excellent "dual personality" engine with the invention of VTEC, the use of their heavy steel rocker arms in an engine used solely for racing is certainly far less than ideal. It was with this in mind, coupled with the popularity of these engines, that in January, 2000 I decided to design a rocker arm for use in Honda "hard core racing engines". My design criteria were:

1. To eliminate VTEC actuation, as it's sole purpose is compliance with exhaust emission laws.

2. To employ the use of light alloy materials wherever possible, for moment of inertia and mass reduction.

3. To eliminate the high friction "rubbing block", and employ a virtually friction free, pressure lubricated needle bearing roller, of as large a diameter as possible. This results in reduced bearing speed for greater longevity, and the lowest possible friction.

4. To increase the mechanical ratio of the rocker arm, thereby moving the roller closer to the pivot shaft, and reducing the moments of inertia.

5. To produce a solid one piece design, eliminating the possibility of inconsistent valve actuation, and the need for multiple cam lobes. The single cam lobe design also has the advantage of lower production cost for the manufacturer, and more importantly, the engine builder. The use of a roller cam profile also provides faster opening and closing rates, better filled cylinders, and more Horsepower.

6. To produce a "minimum mass rocker arm", providing consistent accurate valve actuation with less spring pressure at higher RPM.

7. To retain the camshaft's original base circle, for ease of camshaft manufacturing, and engine building.

The photographs you see here are of the prototype set I machined out of 7075-T8351 Aluminum. The axle and roller are made of two different Tool Steel alloys. I made the rocker arms as robust as was possible given the available space, and was still able to achieve a weight reduction of 210 grams (7.4 oz.) per cylinder. I've recently become aware of a process whereby Titanium can be used for the roller, giving us another 30 grams less weight. This yields 240 grams (8.47 oz.) less weight per cylinder, and viewed overall it means your engine will be moving 2.12 POUNDS LESS reciprocating valvetrain mass, with virtually friction free valve actuation. Taken as a percentage, the Honda rocker arms weigh 83% more, and are not as strong. All of my initial design criteria were met, and I have other ideas that will achieve even greater weight reductions. Real world testing in several Drag Racing engines will begin very soon, and the results will be published here. Rocker arms will be available for Honda B-series, H-series, K-series, F20C1, and Acura NSX engines. Engines from manufacturers other than Honda may benefit from this design as well.

Joe McCarthy
Prototype Racing Inc.







[Modified by Michael Delaney, 10:51 PM 12/23/2002]
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 06:54 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

what's the price on those?
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 07:04 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Kelvin96GSR)

I'm emailing them to get info...it's Christmas time...they specialize in Honda engine swaps into the Lotus Elise. Here's a B18C in a 1635 lb stock curb weight Lotus Elise...zoom zoom (I know wrong company ...LOL)




This is their $6800 conversion kit...polished JDM ITR header too!





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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 07:05 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

when I grow up this will be my Honda swap....midengine Lotus with VTEC..the Bseries engine kills the stock Lotus Elise engine hands down.
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 07:06 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

Post up what you find about those rocker arms. Looks great Thanks for the VTEC article too
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 07:10 PM
  #12  
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (B2FiNiTY)

thanks. I'll let you know what I find out on those rocker arms.

the article has my usual verbose length but has the basics for people just learning about cams...stuff no-one told me when I first started shopping for them.

the actual specs start on page 3.
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

-->...goes to show these engines still have quite a few more tricks in them.
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Old Dec 23, 2002 | 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

like whoa.......always finding out more new crap everyday!
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Old Dec 24, 2002 | 06:42 AM
  #15  
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (iH8RICERZ)

Nice. Very informative. Will help me in my decision making. Thanks.

-Shawn
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Old Dec 25, 2002 | 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

Hm, again the "D" series is left out hehehe Oh well
Guess we get the crude steel rockers and the vtec cam lobe. with our weak 1.55 lift rocker arms.
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Old Dec 26, 2002 | 07:37 AM
  #17  
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (dester223)

What is the hp and torque gains in an R?
When was the prototype released?

I am interested but would need more information.

Also I regietered to your site, after I get the registration e-mail, I click on the link that takes me to the 8 pages to read before entering. The first link on that page is "Register" I click on that but all get is an "Page cannot be displayed" page. Any way around this.

Thanks for all the info.


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Old Dec 27, 2002 | 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Renegade)

Screw it, gimme roller rockers (s2000 style) with custom roller rocker cams and i'll be happy. That $6K upgrade looks like a header, air filter, brace, mounts, and a few other knick knacks. I'm just wondering where the other $5200 went.
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Old Dec 27, 2002 | 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (Michael Delaney)

"1. To eliminate VTEC actuation, as it's sole purpose is compliance with exhaust emission laws."

um, last time i looked this is not true. anyone ever use a cam designed for high rpm at low rpm? anyone ever wonder why 9krpm ford/chevy V8's barely idle? it is BECAUSE they only have one camshaft profile. the above statement is simply not true and is just hype, or worse, shows off the misunderstanding behind vtec. as much as i respect the tech articles from mike, i suspect that the above statement is a bit more hype than anything else. he does say that this is the case when he mentions that one should know the rpm range one is looking for before chosing a cam...


[Modified by vactor, 9:41 PM 12/27/2002]
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Old Dec 27, 2002 | 06:52 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (vactor)

vactor,

That was from Joe McCarthy's article, not Mike's. It wasn't meant to be a thesis on the principles of VTEC. Granted, the statement is overly general and fairly simplistic, but it's not untrue. I doubt your B18C5 (or whatever) passes emissions running on one of the cam lobes all the time 100%.

Edit: your name is vactor, not victor.


[Modified by BimmerSteven, 3:53 AM 12/28/2002]
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Old Dec 27, 2002 | 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Our VTEC camshaft spec article is updated if you are shopping (BimmerSteven)

yeah, you and mike are correct. one can't hope to pass low rpm emissions with high duration high overlap high rpm cams. i stand corrected. as usual though, great reading.
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