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Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd.....

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Old Dec 19, 2002 | 10:43 PM
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Default Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd.....

You know how bad the Joneses are this time of year?

You know how when you are stuck behind someone (on the track!) and you're only able to drive at say 98% - how everything feels the same sortof except you're just going slower. And how if you hadn't just reeled them in, you might not know that you could go faster? If you're stuck very long you can feel youself kind of acclimating to the rut, and you have to shake it off and push harder (this can happen all in one or two corners). I've thought about this a little and wondered how many people are going pretty fast but just don't know how much is left. This is of course the basis for the argument that if you don't lose it occassionally you're not learning anything new.

It was my duty to make a business trip to the coast today. For the drive home I headed north on Hwy 101 (some of the neatest part of the Oregon coast), and headed inland thru the coast range on a narrow 2 lane highway that I remember well from my teenage years. It's a mix of sections composed of 45mph rated sweepers and 20 mph rated quick switchbacks (the wavy banked kind!!!!).

Anyway, I ran the 75 miles of this at nearly legal speeds just working on line, smoothness of control inputs, and general mechanical sympatico. And you know what? It was quite fun enough. Speed is of course irrelevant to the drivers perceptions on track, using the car is a task that takes place at no special mental speed, so why should it have anything to do with the usefullness of mental training?

My stupid driver (which I chose of my own free will with an uncompromising specification of utility and lowest cost) has such a crappy engine management system that smooth control of micro throttle and tip in is extremely difficult. Makes driving my ITR as crudely as I do seem like a peice of cake. Note: I think the Mugen ECU succeeds at something alot of people overlook: it doesn't have rough edges - it's at least as smoothly responsive as the all too easily taken for granted stock Honda/Acura ECU. I've spent a fair amount of time in a BMW 318 and find it's engine management lacking too - I think Honda kicks major *** in this category.

So, back to the drive. And BMW again. The famous BMW steering quality is the gold standard right. Even if the ratio is often too slow. I'm fortunate that my chosen rig has steering feel on par with the standard. I think this is the single most important element in driver satisfaction. Sure we like nice sounds and good power and all the other stuff - but if the steering feel sucked we'd be unhappy. Way back when I hadn't chosen a direction in modern cars yet, I read a shootout including the GSR and the Eclipse AWD Turbo. I innocently considered the Eclipse, but ruled it out after reading that the steering was inert...and that the GSR's was telepathic.

What was I saying? No matter. I don't think "practicing" sub-limit is harmful. We all worry that over the course of the off-season "we lost it". Every year so far I prove to myself that that isn't the case by going faster and driving better. I've stopped worrying about it too much. So much of what we do on the track is conditioned habit. I prove this to myself by pushing my braking points out on the street. I find that fear/uncertainty sets in at speed/distances that are laughable - but they are not consistent with my conditioning for those circumstances. It seems funny to think of myself as "last of the late braker type hero driver" right after one of those little experiments. Repetition of driving the right sequence with high sensitivity in the zone pays I believe all the time.

Likewise for practicing with your eyeballs. Victor reinforced some of Ross Bentley's lessons for me last year - practicing the scanning of mirrors and instruments and cutting the optical adjusment time required. It works, and it's a vital ability. I remember the restart at the CART support race as being driven as much using the mirrors as the windshield.

Mmmmm.....it was a good day.

Scott, who actually turned 300 miles of boring driving into 200 miles of great driving and 200 miles of boring driving.....a bargain eh?
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 09:46 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

It seems funny to think of myself as "last of the late braker type hero driver"
It's actually not that funny from the right-seat perspective of your car. It's downright scary
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 10:23 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (johng)

For little pea-brained guys like us, I agree. I think Scott has a bigger brain that allows his perception of speed, time and distance to be radically different from ours.

Greg ~ who still has flashbacks of Turn 10 during my ride-along with Scott


edit: spelling


[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 7:26 PM 12/20/2002]


[Modified by bulldog_RS20, 7:27 PM 12/20/2002]
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 11:18 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (bulldog_RS20)

Somewhere between this **** you're giving me, and "it's cause my car is so fast", lies the truth.

But, seriously: remember when you where so overwhelmed white knuckle focused that you couldn't even remember to scan for yellow flags? When you couldn't hardly believe there was room to brake downshift and turn in for 12 after you were finally able to come off the gas that was keeping you from losing the back of the car since clipping the apex of 11?

Maybe you do enter a new realm of time-space when you're under pressure and you go beyond the limits you didn't realize your brain was imposing on you. I think this is actually like a muscle in that it can be excercised. Every time I've seriously overcooked it and noticed that it didn't cost me as much as I might have feared, I've found that next level. Sure, that margin gets thinner and thinner, but no surprise that.

It's no different really than when you go wheel to wheel racing - your activity goes from close to 2 Dimensions to more than 4. Somehow you adapt and if it turns you on then you thrive.

These are tough mental breakthroughs to force, and certainly not on the street. But I still think that the basic habits can be usefully cultivated on the street within the law. Calmness comes to mind as a worthy target.

I'm humbled somewhat by the realization that whereas I used to think that I could push myself in lapping to the very edge, the fact is that I dig much deeper under pressure of competition. The ironic twist that I can't explain is that my fastest lap ever was turned while I wasn't even trying to go fast.

Scott, who is waiting for someone to identify my new avatar.....
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

They have yellow flags on the track?

Yeah I know exactly what you're talking about... You, John and I kind of are in different stages of evolution in our skills and experience. Actually it's cool to see John go through the same learning curve as I went through six months before. It's even better to see the improvement that is so evident with ongoing exposure to the speed, g-forces, braking zones, etc...

Looking forward, it's great to see you demonstrating what can be done (and what we prolly will be doing in the future).

I often use my bumper-to-bumper commute time to visualize I'm in a big ITA pack coming down to take the green... bunching up, brake, gas, brake, GO!

...the fact is that I dig much deeper under pressure of competition. The ironic twist that I can't explain is that my fastest lap ever was turned while I wasn't even trying to go fast.
How can one drive so hard and be so slow?? I've found this to be true especially when reviewing race tapes. Often good solid laps are slower than my "relaxed" test laps. It's going to take me awhile to learn that part of it...

Greg ~ who doesn't "saw" at the wheel anymore doing 5/10's
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 11:59 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

I find myself working on developing new habits, even when driving Mom's stock GS-R, any number of rentals, or the Suburban. I'm experimenting with different ways to hold the steering wheel - fingertips-only versus the entire surface of the hand. I'm trying to refine my shuffle steering such that I'm always "pulling the steering wheel down" rather than "pushing the steering wheel up." Practicing "where the wheels are" by driving over and around the reflectors in the lane markings. I experiment with seating positions. I crash into S10 Blazers.

The fingertip thing kind of took me by surprise. When the GS-R was evil loose at Roebling, I found myself instinctively holding the steering wheel with only my fingertips right before T9 (a very fast, 90+mph corner). It sort of just happened, I got through the corner, and was like...where did THAT come from? So I'm trying to see if there's any merit to doing so. I must have made the change subconsciously for a reason, right?

We're all sick. Really, really sick.
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 12:16 PM
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (krshultz)

We're all sick. Really, really sick.
To the contrary - imagine how much trouble most of us would be in if it weren't for our Motorsports. We'd be sportin mullets, drivin Trans Ams, drinkin beer (ok that's a constant for some of you), robbin convenience stores (for beer in those cases I mentioned), and drunkenly chasin women of questionable virtue (well not that questionable I guess cause they's arunnin)....

Scott, who is raisin a eyebrow over this "finger tip drivin" thing......you ain't been drinkin have you son?
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

We'd be sportin mullets, drivin Trans Ams, drinkin beer (ok that's a constant for some of you),
Ouch. That's gotta hurt just about all of the southeast H-T family.
Sorry Karl, Scott, Drew.....

edit ~ added Alistar, Cory and Matt Merry Christmas


[Modified by johng, 2:26 PM 12/20/2002]
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Scott, who is raisin a eyebrow over this "finger tip drivin" thing......you ain't been drinkin have you son?
So what do you (the plural you works fine here, I'll take everyones' opinion on this) think about the finger tip steering. I noticed about half way through this past season (autox) I picked up this habit. I've been trying to figure out if I should go with it or try to break it. Any future problems to be encountered from it? I guess this isn't a true thread-jack but sorry for the digression anyways...
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 01:51 PM
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (Watkinsm3)

I'm gonna talk to ya straight!

Uhm, I removed my power steering. I couldn't drive my car with my fingertips if I wanted to. Actually, a full on death grip is required on my car because I also have a shiny finish leather steering wheel. I don't get arm pump as much as if I'd just finished a 40 minute moto, but driving the car has become that much more athletic an activity.

Scott, who was told not to remove the PS by some respectable people.....and was told not to be a wimp by some others.....bah!
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Driving without *thinking* about it is where the *** kicking begins. Karl, Adam, Shuggles, and I have talked about this many times. You are just in a zone and your body starts doing some sort of autopilot thing. You're going faster, but it feels easier (and therefore slower).
Sure, you always have to be thinking, but not thinking about your actual driving technique or the placement of the car. On those rare (ooohh so rare) occasions when I've found this zone I found myself to be driving the car by instinct and pretty much only thinking about strategy and the position of other cars around me. Of course, the minute you realize you're doing this and start analyzing it... its all over.

Scott, who is from Alabama, lives in Georgia, doesn't have the feared mullet, has never owned trans-am, firebird, or camaro, and (besides the stellar performance from Jackie Gleason) didn't care much for "Smokey and the Bandit."
Note: The biggest "redneck" I ever met was from Connecticut.
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 02:55 PM
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (Catch 22)

....from Alabama, lives in Georgia, doesn't have the feared mullet, has never owned trans-am, firebird, or camaro, and (besides the stellar performance from Jackie Gleason) didn't care much for "Smokey and the Bandit."
Note: The biggest "redneck" I ever met was from Connecticut.
Well they sure are well represented out here in the Pacific oriented West. Must be some kind of countercultural thing.

Scott, who says "no you don't get it.....I wasn't trying to go fast, or thinking about going fast, I was just driving around the track waiting for a shot at a clean lap - I quite literally was driving "not fast". Damn! My subconcious is a faster race driver than I am!"....



[Modified by RR98ITR, 4:20 PM 12/20/2002]
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Scott, who says "no you don't get it.....I wasn't trying to go fast, or thinking about going fast, I was just driving around the track waiting for a shot at a clean lap - I quite literally was driving "not fast". Damn! My subconcious is a faster race driver than I am!"....

[Modified by RR98ITR, 4:18 PM 12/20/2002]
No. I do get it.
And I've pretty much concluded that all of us have a faster subconcious driver. Our conscious driver tends to outthink itself.
Do you think guys like Schumacher, Montoya, Pobst and even Foo and Fowler drive around the track thinking stuff like "OK, move left... turn in, apex at red mark... track out... slow hands.... slow hands..."?
Nah. I doubt it.
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 03:43 PM
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (Catch 22)

No. I do get it.
Ohhhhh.....Scott's starting to get mad! NO, YOU DON'T GET IT (ok maybe you do get it but it's my thread and I can be ridiculous if I want to right).

I could have been dialing my cell phone, fishing around under the seat for my missing pinkie ring, thinkin bout how I'd rather be home watchin Speed Channel with a Mike's Hard Cider....

I suppose it could have been a timing system malfunction.....

I just can't believe my subconcious is that fast.....this is starting to scare me. Hell, if I'm that good somebody should be paying my way.....oh yeah, somebody else is....Concious Me.

Scott, who now very conciously shifts to 5th...."up....over.....up.....Please God"......seriously, conscious me doesn't really pay that much attention when it's driving either....it's probably psycho-sexual.....
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Ohhhhh.....Scott's starting to get mad! NO, YOU DON'T GET IT
Oh, but I do (hee hee).
Seriously though... The fastest lap I ever turned at CMP was on nearly corded 2nd hand hoosiers that had a couple of flat spots (girlfriend and shultz from earlier in the day. they still think its funny. I don't), a tired motor that was burning over a quart of 20-50 a day, and 5 year old Tokico shocks. It was a fairly meaningless event (Time trial with a club I had never run with before) that I was doing for ***** and giggles.

Ran a 54.4. Ran a couple of 54s just to show it wasn't a fluke. I wasn't even really trying. Could've been looking for a pinky ring or ordering pizza on the cell.

Fast Forward 6 months. I come back to CMP with brandy new Hoosiers, Motor rebuild, and pimpy revalved konis. Best I could do was a 54.8 with most laps in the 55s. I was trying too hard. Thinking too much. At this point I firmly believe it's worth at least 1 second per lap. Karl had a case this year were he literally "mentalled" himself out of about 3 seconds per lap. It's serious stuff worth far more time than shocks and tires.

Of course, in your case it was probably just a timing error. Or maybe it wasn't... <insert eerie music>

PS - If you tell me I don't get it again youre going to get froggie pantied.
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 05:11 PM
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From: Snowwhitepillowformybigfathead
Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (Catch 22)

Uhma gettin a picture: you're in your special froggie panties in your race car and you're hearin a voice that says something like "use the force", only it's some other words more appropriate to froggie pantie people like "dude...don't mental yourself out...hey, your froggie panties are up your crack, I'll drive while you extract them". Viola! 3 Seconds!

Scott, who says you guys will NEVER GET IT!......

BTW - this thing with lap times is Krazy....I totally know what you're talking about. Perception of speed and effort are seemingly independent of the measured speed. Track conditions, wind, the condition of your Mojo.....

Scott, who's signing twice because 1) I can, and 2) you still don't get it do you?
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 05:20 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Consider yourself Froggie Pantied.

Damned mullet sportin' Pacific Northwesterners .
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 08:24 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (Catch 22)

Driving without *thinking* about it is where the *** kicking begins.
This is so very true.

I've had some very "on" weekends, and far more "off" weekends. It is always, always, ALWAYS an off weekend when I spend too much time thinking about what braking marker to use, or where the grip is on the track, or whatever else. And on "on" weekends, when asked where I turn in for such-and-such, I usually don't know. "I just kinda turned in."

Familiarity with a track helps here, at least for me. I have a a lot more on days at VIR and CMP than other places simply because I've been there so many times.

Now, as to the fingertip thing...like I said, I dunno where that came from at Roebling this year. That's why I'm trying it out on a daily basis to see how it works. So far, its a mixed bag. But this is data I didn't have before. And at all times behind the wheel of any car, anywhere...I try to improve.
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Old Dec 20, 2002 | 09:37 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (krshultz)

I've had some very "on" weekends, and far more "off" weekends. It is always, always, ALWAYS an off weekend when I spend too much time thinking about what braking marker to use, or where the grip is on the track, or whatever else. And on "on" weekends, when asked where I turn in for such-and-such, I usually don't know. "I just kinda turned in."
There's more to talk about here, and it's subtle (which isn't to say that anybody isn't getting it - they are of course - but...).

One of my very best motocross weekends was near the very end of my career. It was a really soupy weekend at the Woodland Winter Track. I was on my KX125 - my last bike and the first year that KX's were worth a ****. I couldn't usually finish a moto without reinjuring myself, so I was trying hard to be more of a thinking rider. I walked the track more carefully than usual and mapped out MY lines more deliberately than ever - and I was always very deliberate to start with. I only remember practice. I rode clean and fast but nothing heroic and I didn't hurt myself. I didn't know that one of the fastest guys (of which I was not always consistently one because of my physical unreliability) had been killing himself to chase me for the whole session. He came up afterward and asked me how hard I was riding with a look of absolute disbelief on his face. As I ended my days of that sport, I carried the memory of that day away with me as comfort against the occassional creeping doubt as to my potential, ability, and prospects.

I know that motocross with it's fluid and shifting lines is very different from what we do on a road course, but the value of clear concious thought in what we do can't be overlooked. I think we can all agree that we need to be of more than one mind if we are to be the drivers we want to be. We must have the subconcious base that operates the car fluidly. We must also have high level concious thinking and evaluating of not just the strategic situation, but also the driver/car relationship. That high level thinking is what's going to intercede and "tell" you to stop overdriving the car for instance, or to pick up on an emerging problem that otherwise wouldn't be noticed while you were in the pure instinct coma mode.

Let's not blame concious thought and effort for being obstacles or problems. The problem is underdeveloped discipline of concious thought. Every time you find emotion swelling up while you're in the thick of it, you are telling yourself how much further you have to go. The calm that we want to work in is not due to an abscence of concious thought, but rather to efficient concious thought.

Scott, who is trying out his new Kung Fu master persona......avatar to follow surely....
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Old Dec 21, 2002 | 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Zen and the Art of Auto Racing

by Scott
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Old Dec 21, 2002 | 01:03 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (RR98ITR)

Keep vision up. Watch for flags.
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Old Dec 21, 2002 | 04:36 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (4doorH22)

Not so much a practice technique, but more of a training/conditioning exercise that apparently has beneficial crossover for faster laps... about a year ago I had dinner with two fairly experience roadracer types who were extolling the virtues of riding mountain bikes (that's bicycles, not motorcycles) as part of their training/practicing routine. Aside from the obvious aerobic/cardiovascular benefit, they both claim that mountain biking helps with this "visual acuity" thing (i.e., enhancing your field of vision through eye and head movement, learning how to scan the surroundings quickly to discern important from nonimportant information, and all of this leading to becoming better "connected" with your machine, etc...)
than can be so important in racing. Now if Santa would only bring me a mountain bike, I could give it a try...
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Old Dec 21, 2002 | 07:28 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (krshultz)

Driving without *thinking* about it is where the *** kicking begins.

This is so very true.

I've had some very "on" weekends, and far more "off" weekends. It is always, always, ALWAYS an off weekend when I spend too much time thinking about what braking marker to use, or where the grip is on the track, or whatever else. And on "on" weekends, when asked where I turn in for such-and-such, I usually don't know. "I just kinda turned in."
Maybe kinda related, but the difference between "just driving" and worrying to much about "driving properly" becomes the most evident when I'm in traffic or chasing someone as opposed to being on clean, clear track. When I'm amongst other cars, it seems the Fangio deep inside me takes over and I stop thinking about what I'm doing (re: turn-in points, what brake marker I'm driving to, etc) and I seem to enter "the zone" I think someone called it. My fastest qualifying laps at every single ECHC event were turned when I was mixing it up with faster cars. My best qualifying lap at VIR was turned when I was trying to follow Corey in the tank. I was able to stay with Rhodes during the Saturday race and actually was in a position to outbrake and pass him a time or two, but laid off. I consider just being able to stay within visual range of Rhodes to be a major victory for me, much less actually stay with him. I decided not to muck up the H4 battle since I had a comfortable lead in my class. As soon as I let them get a little room and I just had my own driving to think about, those guys disappeared and left me. I was "outta the zone." I sincerely believe in retrospect that I am much quicker chasing and trying to pass someone than I will ever be when running solo. The proof to that pudding was in Sunday qualifying at CMP when I laid back to get clean track for my hot laps, and managed to pull off a 2+ second slower lap than my best race lap from the day before.

I KNOW the sunconscious me is much faster than the conscious me. I don't necessarily think that is something I like, because I can't control it - it seems to come on at some of the right times, unless I want it to (like qualifying).
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Old Dec 21, 2002 | 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (1gTeg90)

Funny how our idea of not thinking while driving is concentrating too much on a brake marker or turn-in point, while the general public's idea of not thinking while driving is reading the newspaper, drinking coffee and talking on the cell phone while driving.
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Old Dec 21, 2002 | 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Off season practice techniques for the seriously Jones'd..... (4doorH22)

This could keep you ocupied!

www.visitbritain.com/seasonsgreetings
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