Okay, searched but only found b16 vs B18 pissing contests, on a autox/daily driver on a 97 EJ7, what is a good engine choice?

B18b w/b16 tranny and ls final drive?
B18b w/GSR tranny
B18b W/ls tranny

or

B18C1
B16(A2?) newest USDM

Main requirements: daily driven, mostly street driven, little freeway time, USDM and smoggable.

No pissing contest, I am new to autox, don't really care about what class, will prob see more street anyway, and I love good handling on the twisties...

 

 

What's an EJ7?

 

eithre the b18b with the GSR tranny
or a straight GSR swap.

 

Autox is more about suspension and grip than overall power. And with any motor swap, you'll land in a class with some seriously prepped cars. This may not matter to some, but it is something to think about before building a car.

But for your question, obviously the biggest motor with the shortest gearing (to an extent) is going to be the best choice. A lot of 'D' series motors are better for autox than the B16.


[Modified by Todd00, 11:30 PM 12/19/2002]

 

todd is right... a swap automatically means SM or up.

i love my LS w/GSR trans. here's why:
http://homepages.wmich.edu/~s8myers1...ic_dyno_sm.gif

low RPM torque anyone?

a great setup would be a 5th gen DX with motor/suspension mods, and falken azenis.... enough to just stay in STS and be competitive.
the second you cross over to SM, you need lots of suspension upgrades, R-comps and more power.

 

its funny you guys mention "torque" and "honda" in the same post

 

If you are new to auto-x then don't worry about the car - learn to auto-x first then work on performance. I guarantee an experienced auto-xer in a Civic VX will beat an novice autox-er in a Turbo ITR. Spend your money on driving schools and seat time and you will go faster earlier than if you spend it on engine swaps and suspension mods.

Regards,
Alan

 

c'mon now... you gotta admit 100wlbft at 2000rpm is pretty good for a 1.8L

 

@8000 rpms

 

Yep autocross is more about driver and suspension than pure hp. I know plenty of cars with 2-3x more hp and 2-3x more $$$ than my Civic Si which I stomp on

I would just stick with your car the way it is and leave out the swap. Maybe in a year or two of some experience then I would get the swap. You would be classed in SM (depending on other mods) and will be owned

 

okay, guys, this is really helping.

Buji an EJ7 is a Coupe HX 97.

Okay what I have planned so far...
Picking up a D16Z6 tranny w new clutch and short shifter (Cheap from friend) DC header for D16Y8, Bpipe for EX, muffler undecided, rear GSR brake setup, front GSR brake setup. I have eibach prokit springs and I may pick up either tokico blues or illumina's and RSR springs. As for rolling stock it will either be SSR type X's in 15x7 or Rota Subzeros in 16x7 (only because I already have rubber for this size)

Now this will be my set up while i wait to decide on my swap, hopefully in the next year, but I want to have an idea of which direction will work best, from what i've heard so far either the GSR or B18b w/gsr tranny works for you guys. Should I invest in the lightened flywheel, or coilovers too? And this is really helping, thanks


[Modified by RSZero1, 4:07 PM 1/2/2003]

 

invest in a set of shox, a extra set of OE wheels (same size), and set time. Go to an evolution school (www.autocross.com/evolution). In fact, do two weekends. Then get some race rubber....

 

Second the driving school, you'll take more time off than any nodification you buy could get you. But if you go all out I highly reccomend a limited slip differential.

 

okay, will do on the school, any opinions on the lightened flywheel, 12lbs. at the most. And for the shocks, are either the tokico blues or illuminas with my eibachs fine? Or should I get the RSR's or coilovers? Anyother suspension adds? swaybars, etc... I really want a good, no great handling car first, power second...

 

here's is the importance of each category for being successful in autoX (IMO):

1. driver
2. driver
3. driver
4. tires
5. tire pressure
6. suspension
7. braking
8. power

 

okay, i get the driver part, any more info on the equipment?

 

I've got a 93 civic, and have talked a fair bit with fellow autocrossers about the pros and cons of engine swaps.

When you go to a D16 VTEC, I think you're adding something like 25lbs in the head of the engine - high over the front wheels. When you go to a b-series, you're adding like another 100 pounds above that (with the VTEC engines still paying a weight penalty over the B18B). Some autocrossers swear that with the civic, the added weight and front weight bias from the bigger engine is bad enough that you're worse-off with the swap, claiming that a supercharger on the D16 is the way to go. But unless you're actually building the car solely for competitive autocrossing, I say screw all that noise, and go ahead with the motor swap.

For my car, I'm pretty sure I want a B16, because it's cheap, and the transmission comes with short gear ratios (and an LSD if you get a JDM one that has LSD). If it were my primary car, and not just a beater, I'd probably spend a little more and get a GS-R motor. The Type-R motor is just too costly to justify, IMO.

Also, think twice before you put bigger brakes on. My civic has no shortage of stopping power with stock brakes and pads. I'm sure with new brake lines and performance brake pads, it'd be more than adequate for autocrossing with race tires. If you want to run race tires, the usual setup for civics is 13" rims with short/wide little hoosiers to help the gearing. If you put GS-R brakes on your car, it could make it tough if not impossible to find 13" wheels that fit over them.

-Mike

 

perfect, keep it coming, this is info I need...before i do my swap i'm going to have fun with the D16Y5, driving schools, some beginer events...practice, practice, ...keep the info coming...

 

okay as far as the weight penalty, how bout the d16Y5 with the si greddy turbo kit? or in that case is the JRSC the better bet for road/auto x/daily driving? I mean i'm pretty stoked on the B18b and maybe later turbo or JRSC...but i'm open to options, spade's been coaching me so far...

 

>>When you go to a D16 VTEC, I think you're adding something like 25lbs in the head of the engine<<

I did a head swap from Y7 (non-vtec) to Y8 (vtec), and the weights are virtually identical. The whole head only weighs about 35 lbs. There is about a 3-5 lb difference between the two. It was a good upgrade COMBINED with the EX tranny. But it wasn't enough...

I'm gonna skip the obligitory "all about the driver" stuff and talk about making power...

I know FI is a big debate. About as big as whether a FWD really has a chance in SM. Well for those who think a FWD does have a chance, IMO it ain't gonna if it's a normally aspirated Honda. So, I went over to the "dark side" by putting a T25 turbo and side mount intercooler from a 98 Eclipse GSX on my car. Regrets? Not only no, but hell no. The turbo hits a full (for now) 7 psi at 2800 rpm's. Torque is amazing, and I have all the power I can handle below 60 mph. It's a *nice* change... If you're considering something like this though, I'd do a ton of reading and research first, and don't scrimp on the engine management or kaboom.

Now here's the really neat part. I swapped out the stock exhaust for a custom (cheap) 2.25" full length exhaust, complete with resonator and muffler. After the removal of the stock EX header, my total weight gain after the turbo was a whopping 18 lbs. The car is so muffled as a result of the turbo that I may substitute a straight pipe for the muffler section. So then I'll be down to 8 lbs over...

Edit: A supercharger might seem like a good option for autox, but I wouldn't touch one with a 10 foot pole for all kinds of reasons (JRSC or Vortech). If you're curious about some of those reasons, check out just about any thread in the FI Forum that mentions superchargers. I know those guys are primarily drag racers, but the issues still make apply to us.


[Modified by fsp31, 9:47 PM 1/2/2003]

 

well remember my car is a D16Y5, it is a vtec head, the HX high fuel...so i wont be swapping heads, just larger injectors. That really helps because i'm not after neck snapping power, AND if i ever do decide to sell, i can remove everything and go back to stock...keep it coming, need more input...

 

do you have dyno results?

look at my torque curve. i'd be pretty surprised if you make 100wlbft at 2k rpm. FI is a good route to go for d-series. it's been proven time and again that boost is the only way to get power from d-series. then again, the whole point of moving up to SM (IMO) is cause of the swap. i personally would keep the car in STS, throw on some azenis and call it a day.

 

okay i know SM = Street Modified, what's STS? And does that require a stock engine? What class would I be in with just the mods listed above, no swap, no turbo?

 

>>i'd be pretty surprised if you make 100wlbft at 2k rpm.<<

Why would I care about 2000 rpm's? How often do you tach that low on an autox course? I never go below 3500 or so unless I screw up. What kind of torque are you making at 3k rpm's?

My opinion is based on what I saw at Nationals this year. Out of the 11 or so Hondas, 5 weren't boosted (1 B20, 2 B16's, and 2 D16's including me). Man did it show (as well as my **** poor driving). The B20 vtec was well driven, but it still wasn't getting it done on the straights, although he was significantly faster than the rest of the N.A. Civics. Of the N.A. Hondas who were there, at least 3 of us already have installed or are building turbo kits for our cars. So, from what I've seen: N.A. Street Mod Honda = knife to a gunfight. It would be neat to see a built N.A. Honda be competitive though... I dunno if Grady Wood is going to stay N.A., but if anyone can do it, it's him.