Ok I've been thinking alot lately. I love my Type-R and it will be an awesome track car one of these days. I really want to put all of my extra cash into it but if I'm really going to be serious about racing I'm thinking I should start off with something I don't care as much about. Here is my plan.

1. Find a $500-$800 CRX.
2. Approved roll cage and harnesses.
3. Set of brake pads and fluid.
4. Decent set of tires.
5. Leave everything else pretty much stock and use my extra cash for track expenses.
6. Drive it until it explodes or I smash it into a wall (possibly both).

Is there really any other things I need to have a relatively safe track car? What do you guys think? I'm not saying I'll never put the R out on a real track ( I plan on doing it soon), but I'm thinking a beater CRX would be a good learning investment.

 

i think that is a great thing to do....since i have seen an itr with jdm frontend get all balled up in the first race this guy was in.

the crx and itr will handle completely different!!!

if you aren't ready to write off the ITR don't race or push it too it's limits!!

 

all sounds good except #1
good luck finding a 5-800$ CRX thats running.

 

Crashing into a wall while on fire would be cool
On a more serious note, it all depends on what type of racing you want to do. If its just autocross and HPDE's, i would just focus on the ITR. Theres really no need to get another car when you have a more than capable car for the track. The best thing would be to keep doing HPDE's etc. and when you feel you are ready, you can enter in the Honda Challenge, or whatever you want to compete in. This way you will have a great car and you will (should) be a good driver. Now the risk of crashing is a lot less, although still a possibility.

You might say, well i dont want to take the risk of crashing my ITR blah blah blah, but i say it can always be fixed. And while just concentrating on one car, you probably will have more money in the long run, just in case it ever does happen. Just take it one step at a time Good luck on whatever you decide to do.


[Modified by paste, 11:45 PM 12/17/2002]

 

theres a link that kirk wrote up on building an IT car in the FAQ!!!!

 

Sounds like a plan. For a CRX that cheap though, its probably gonna have high miles, so you'll want to go thru the suspension, brakes, etc and make sure everything is safe for high speed use. I'm not sure I'd buy a car like that and just put it out on the track before spending some cash freshening things up.

PS - like its been said here before, to save some money, look around for a car thats already prepped for track use. Try the classifieds at http://www.improvedtouring.com and http://www.sccaforums.com.

 

Please don't take this personally, but I really have a hard time understanding this. Why not track the R? You bought it because it is a wonderful machine that *drives just like a racecar and is completely at home on the track*. If you are afraid of what you might go through when you ball it up, then sell it and get a car that you don't have that fear with. There are a lot of GS-R integras out there if you wish to stay with an integra, and if cost is an issue, then get a Civic/CRX. But, you run the risk of going down *that* path, where you have 3 half-assed "track" cars in your driveway, and no money to race any of them.

-chris, who has 3 "trackable" cars, 2 of them daily driven, all of them half assed.

 

Because he doesn't want to write a check for $20,000 to replace it in case of an on-track incident.

Buying an old beater is a good way to go. You can tear it up, mod it any way you want, and not worry much about resale.

Here is my short list of beaters (where beater = available for <$2000) that make great track cars:
81-85 RX-7 GSL
Any CRX or Civic up to 91 (92+ are too expensive)
early Integras
early Corollas, MR2s and other 4age cars

Of those, the RX-7 is by far the cheapest to put on track. I'm sure there are others (BMW 320i, 2002, Nissan 200sx, Sentra, etc). You can by a decent RX-7 for $1000, add $500 for a rollbar, $500 in misc wear items, and $500 in tires and you're set.

 

Congratulations on doing that WAY earlier in the process than most of us do (or did)! You are now among the smartest 2% of the people involved in this game.

Kirk

 

It would not cost 20k to go get a new tub. More like 4k. BUT, that is the price of driving a nicer car on track. My argument was simply that if he wasn't willing to play at that level, he should sell the car and buy one that IS at the level he is willing to play at.
I agree very much with your second point. It is a liberating experience to shear off a bolt head, and just go "oh, dammit, I guess I'll have to go spend 40 cents on another" instead of "oh, dammit, that cost 15 bucks, and I can't find another without buying the whole assembly."

 

I'm presuming since you said "roll cage" and not "roll bar" you're referring to a "track car" as one you will use in wheel-to-wheel competition. With that in mind, lets do some math.

You buy a beater CRX, and we'll low ball and say you find one for $500. In addition to the roll cage ($600 low ball up to $1500 for one that is actually safe), harnesses ($150), fire bottle ($30), racing seat and mounts/brackets ($200), seat back brace ($75), window net and hardware ($45), brake pads and fluid ($200), tires (1 set, at say $500) on stock wheels. I hope there's no rust in that beater, because I can't speculate on how much all that bodywork could cost...

Other than the required personal safety equipment (suit, shoes, gloves, helmet, etc) this is about the minimum I'd say you would need to get on track for a race. You're now at $2300.

You're gonna be relying on beater wheel bearings, a questionable engine, transmission, clutch, suspension parts, other brake parts, etc. Remember, you have a $500 car - it's cheap for a reason. You're not gonna get much track time in when something seizes/explodes/melts/breaks. You could easily spend a grand just making the car reliable enough to withstand the severe conditions of even the shortest 30 min sprint race.

You say you want to learn? Well, you've already spent $3300 on your beater in order to get on track and actually drive OFF track and not be TOWED back to the pits. Problem is, you're trying to learn to drive fast on $500 beater car shocks (whick have been shot for years), stock bushings that are probably 80% dryrotted and have fallen out, stock springs and bars, and all of the other questionable suspension parts such as most likely worn out ball joints and tie rod ends. You can't learn to drive in a car like that, seriously. Even if you don't ever enev open the hood and put all thoughts of extra HP out of your mind, you need the suspension to be up to spec, even if without all the trick parts. Why learn to drive an ill-handling car? When you DO get it handling right, you have to learn to drive it fast all over again. Add $800 for the basic suspension parts (shocks, springs, bushings, ball joints and rod ends), figuring you do the labor. Double that if you pay someone else to put 'em in.

You're now at $4100. You have stock engine, exhaust, clutch, tranny, etc. You're a backmarker and I don't care what you say now you WILL want more power in order to catch that guy in front of you. Stop, I don't even want to hear about how you just want to learn and you aren't trying to be competitive. If you believed that you wouldn't even be out there, you'd be using your money more wisely than spending it on racing. Before the season is over you'll have towed your beater to OPM and Delta Group for trick suspension parts, a limited slip diff, a fancy header and exhaust, and so on and so on. Don't say you won't because I know you will. How much you have in the car by then is up to you, but it can quickly hit 5 digits with no end in sight.

Trust me. I bought a $2700 car mostly built less than a year ago. I had plans of just finishing the basics, making it safe and legal, and going racing.

In the end, yes, I won H5. But the bug bit me. I now have almost $10,000 in my beater. and I still have lots of stuff to do. I have just run out of money. Oh, and this is my second "beater" - my first one was a $500 '87 CRX Si that spent over a year in my garage, consumed twice what I paid for it in parts, and never made it to the track. I sold it for what I had in it and bought the integra.

If I had it to do over again, even though I now LOVE my car, I would have bought another car, one that needed NOTHING in order to be ready to race. I can show you 2 cars right now that are ready to race and require ZERO additional expenses in order to be ready to hit the track, are reliable, would be immediately competitive in their class (both H5), and will set you back just a tad over your basic beater investment of $2300.

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=312285

http://www.rivergate5speed.com/for_sale.html

You know you want to.....learn from my mistakes, as well as those of many others who will tell you the same thing. I know Giles wishes he had bought a ready buily H4 CRX as an ARRC winner car could be bought for half of what he has in his GSR. You'll hear the same thing all over the place...

And by the way, if you weren't planning on wheel-to-wheel, both of these cars could be driven to the track with little to no modification and would be perfect for HPDE's. And when you are ready to join the ECHC, the car is ready and willing, not wanting more $$$.

sorry for the long post, but if you take my advice trust me, you will be happy in the long run.

 

Okay - I wasn't going to go there but buying a ready-to-race car would put you in the [/i]smartest 1%[/i] of people playing this game...

Kirk

 

I agree, buy a car that is already prepped and get seat time! Don't spend your time working on a car or building up a car to save $$$...you lose track time and $$$.

Kirk II

 

dont forget. In 03 you have to have a weld in cage! So Idoubt you will find a good used one!

~Jonathan

 

Where did this come from? I don't believe that this is the case for SCCA, at least. More info?
Kirk

 

eh???

 

more info please!

 

Typical.. once you need it, you cant find it

anyways my tech inspector showed it to me

If you already have a logbook then your OK. If you dont... Then your probably going to be in trouble...

 

The word of one tech inspector is either (a) wonderful or (b) dangerous, depending on which way his opinion falls. A newby on improvedtouring.com got told that he needed a horizontal "dash" bar to get a logbook - which is NOT true.

The FasTrack item that made ERW tubing illegal did not - to the best of my recollection - make welded-in cages mandatory and I didn't see any other FasTracks that touched on the point. The '03 GCR should only codify items that have already appeared there so I don't know where this is coming from.

Show me the text of the rule.

Kirk