Tonight I'm hanging with a buddy messing with my car (92 Civic/97 ITR) and notice some discoloration near one of the lower heatshield mounting points. I ran my hand down there and felt something strange so we threw a light on it to see what was up. What was up was that there is a big *** crack in the piping that is almost halfway around the tube.



Funny thing is that roughly a month ago my rear header bracket broke.

I'm not sure what could be the cause of this but I've heard of other breaking the rear bracket but never have I heard of anyone cracking a primary.

I'm not too pissed about this because I think the crack can be welded, at least temporarily. What's really bugging me is not knowing the cause of this. Here are some of the mods that I think may have something to do with this:

ES rear motor/tranny mount insert
ES driver's-side torque mount insert
FLP 4-1 skidplate

Anyone care to share opinions on what this could be caused by? It's driving me nuts...


[Modified by hondatwincam, 9:23 PM 12/16/2002]

 

My money is on the skid plate...look where the skid plate bracket attaches to the header tubing... A solid hit on the skid plate would probably put a lot of stress on the mounting point.

P.S. Is it a JDM <u>Honda</u> 4-1 or a replica?... The knockoffs are not too great quality wise. If it has thin tubing, that would contribute to the cracking.


[Modified by Bob#455, 9:37 PM 12/16/2002]

 

that's some bad engineering for you.....

 

Only on behalf of the company that made the skid plate...

 

My money is on the skid plate as well.

Personally, I see no need for a skid plate on that header anyways, I drove over a ~4' wide divider (stuck in traffic, did a uturn) and the header scraped the whole way across, when I looked, I didn't even see a scratch.

 

Sounds like a good testimonal to me

 

It kinda looks like a repilca

 

I have the skidpad no problems here. You must have overtorqued the screws and smashed it on the street maybe. Skidpad worked for me.

 

He has an OEM JDM 4-1 header

Trey

 

Sorry bout your Luck Jesse. Give me a shout later today.

 

Is that header JetHot coated or something like that?

As mentioned by others - it may have been caused by the skidplate.

 

I agree with the others. The skidplate is the most likely cause. Even a moderate hit would cause great amount of stress on the joints.

 

Bob,

The header is a genuine Honda JDM 98 Spec R 4-1 that I bought from JDMHondaParts.com back in December of 2000. The only reason I don't blame the skidplate right off is that it's been on there for a long time now w/o problem. The most recent thing done to the car was the ES motor/torque mount inserts. But even they weren't just installed. I installed those in Sept/Oct.

 

Bob and Stock R,

I'm not so sure the plate is engineered badly. I know of many other people w/ the plate that haven't had a problem.

 

I wouldn't say it's engineered well either. It IS using a HEATSHIELD mount at a mounting location.. the heatshield bend when they hit something and Honda put those mounts there for that sole purpose. If they had intended on them being skid plate mounting locations they would sell a skid plate, but they don't.

Sorry, but that plate was deisgned using the available mounting location for weak, non protective heat shields when a well engineered piece would have used seperate brackets.

 

Dave-ROR,

I'm not sure if the skidplate has ever saved _me_ from diasaster but it certainly would help prevent stuff like this:



http://www.fastlineperformance.com/skidplate.htm#damage shows more pictures of damaged JDM 4-1s.

 

ITR GURU,

If memory serves correct, the bolts are torqued to something like 16 ft-lb. A for smashing into something, I don't recall hitting anything recently. We did have some snow here a week or so ago and I did hit some chunks of snow but not at speed.

 

B( * Y * )BIES,

I went w/ Airborne Coatings http://www.airborncoatings.com/ rather than JetHot.

 

You hit ANYTHING hard enough it'll bend. I've hit mine a lot with no damage, so I'm going to assume that the damage shown took a pretty fuggen hard hit, a hit hard enough that the skid plate likely would have caused damage elsewhere anyways. If someone gives me a JDM 4-1 and a skid plate I'll test it

It is still a poor design IMO. It uses brackets for something that they certainly (and OIBVIOUSLY) aren't strong enough for.

 

&lt;-- Cliff who would have thought coating a header would also extend it's life.
Maybe this is just a rare situation.

 

Cliff,

I can see how coating a header would extend it's life in regards to corrosion and (maybe) heat but then again, perhaps the coating process might actually weaken the piece depending on how hot they need to get it. I don't know enough about the coating process to chat intelligently about it so this, as most of the ideas I and everyone else have come up with, is merely speculation.

 

Since this post has generated more interest than I expected, I want to just say that this whole thing is by no means a bash on FLP's skid plate, ES's bushings or the JDM 4-1. As far as I can see, I'm the only person that's encountered this problem. I do appreciate everyone sharing their thoughts on my dilemma though and, if possible, I will try to help others avoid this problem.

As for the theories on cause, most everyone seems to point a finger @ the FLP skidplate. I'm not sold on that yet because the plate has been on my car as long as the header has (March of this year) w/o any sign of trouble. I do see how some sort of impact to the plate could possibly do this but I don't think I've hit anything. I'll have to examine the skidplate itself tonight to see if there are any signs of contact tonight.

Of the mods I suspect as causing or contributing to the problem, the most recent upgrade is the ES bushings. I did ES bushings, ATS 4.9, ACT clutch and Fidanza FW all at the same time. I'd say a week after the bushings went in I broke the rear header bracket. I'd say that was a month or two ago and now I have a cracked primary. Typical problem-solving would dictate that the most-recent change before a problem occurs usually is the cause for the problem. With the ES inserts the motor moves hardly at all. I know from watching others drive my car that the exhaust moves around a bit and perhaps lack of movement of the motor is causing this movement to take it's toll on other components. This makes more sense to me than the skidplate reason for reasons that I've mentioned above.

The next step for me is to get the crack repaired. Then I'm thinking about ditching the mounts and seeing if any other problems arise.

I'm still interested to see what others have to say though.

 

IMO I don't think coating would at all weaken it!
Agreed! I don't know much about it either.

&lt;-- Cliff who hopes hondatwincam can get his header fixed or replaced!

 

Just for the record, my JDM 4-1 is also coated (jethot's 2200degree or whatever.. not the smooth finish one but kinda feels like a OEM valve cover) which I always credit for the lack of scratchs.. that chit is hard to get off

 

It seems to me that firmer motor mounts would reduce the stress on the header because there is less movement of the engine, and thus less movement for the header.