Hey all a few of you might have been following my engine rebuild, which started like 9 months ago, drawing upon all of the knowledge within Honda-tech.

To cut a long story short, my engine is blowing what I believe is white smoke fairly heavily after idling for some time, or in-between gear changes, a puff of white smoke.
The smoke smells of a oil, and has only recently started doing this after my full rebuild 4000km. We started noticing the smoke, after we installed my 3” exhaust system which constrains no cat, at the same time retorquing the ARP head studs, (80lb) and re doing the valve clearances.

My setup is a b16 engine with darlton sleeves, je pistons (9:1) eagle rods, new bearing everywhere new gaskests everywhere, type R b18 oil pump, JG intake manifold, aem fuel reg, 550 cc rc injectors hondata s200, using a max rev kit, t3/t4 hybrid turbo ic etc.

We ran the engine in with caster oil, (running in oil) and changed it regularly, a total of 3000km done with around 5 oil changes. Now iv done 1000km on Mobil (synthetic)1 5w40, im running a open loop system, with regards to breathing the block / value cover, which run’s into a catch can with the PVC valve removed, the catch can dumps to the atmosphere. We have only shown the engine 7psi controlled via a tail wastgate, during the first 100km of running in the car no more than 2 psi was shown to the engine, and no full throttle driving was done until after 1000km’s.

The car drives perfect and pulls very hard, and seems ready for loads more boost, compression on all 4 cylinders is 180, which is about right for 9:1 compression. The head was lightly ported and polished with new stem seals, new springs, and everything was checked to be with in spec ( according to the head builders )
The ring used on the pistons were JE rings gaped to there spec’s for turbo applications, and piston to bore was also double measured, and fell within spec of JE.
My bore size is still 81mm ( stock b16) bore size. The car run’s with a wide band lambda sensor, and we currently the a/f ratio is around 12, were going to dyno tune as soon as we fix this smoke problem.

My old exhaust system was a 2 1/4 “ system which was very restrictive, using a stock Honda cat. Now with the 3” system from the 2.5” maxrev down pipe back, the turbo spools up like crazy, but I have this white smoke coming out of the exhaust after the engine is warmed up, and idles for more than 10+ seconds. It won’t always smoke, and smokes a little more when the fan’s come on, seems like when there’s high vacuum when the engine is’t under load out comes whiteish smoke, only from the exhaust.
The valve cover doesn’t smoke what so ever, but does “seem to push out a far volume of air not sure if that’s normal but I think it is” when you block off the valve cover, more air very slightly white comes out of the crack case breather.

We have checked the intercooler pipes for oil and like wise the radiator, and no signs of oil, were going to inspect the exhaust side of the turbo tomorrow, but are really starching our heads with what it could be, were also going to do a leak down test tomorrow also, to see if that can show us anything. One possibility im thinking is the oil ring’s hav’t set in yet which I find very hard 2 believe, but I have even compression across all 4 cylinders.

So Im asking for your input, what we can check and double check, I didn’t notice any of this tail tail white smoke until we removed the cat and went to 3” but I find it very hard 2 believe that’s the cause, unless the cat I used 2 run, used to remove all the white smoke which im seeing now, but sometimes there’s a fair bit coming out, we also have triple checked valve clearances, to Honda specs and all is fine.

Another suggestion I got was maybe the Type R oil pump was working / supplying to much pressure, and is supplying the turbo to much oil which is passing the turbo’s seals and burning in the exhaust, were also going to check the oil feed to the turbo pressure tomorrow and if necessary put a regulator in to remove excess pressure…

If you have any suggestions what we can try, or what you think might be the problem it would be great to hear from you !!

Kindest Regards James

 

Wow. My B18C1 w/ AEBS T Sleeves and JE 9:1 is doing the exact same thing. Just about 3200 miles on the motor w/ multiple oil changes. Haven't switched to synthetic yet however.

 

holly crap ! lol but let me guess you hav'nt got a solution for the problem yet ???


iv also noticed something else I forgot 2 mention that it seems that plugs from cylinders 1 and 4 run more lean than plugs in cylinders 2 and 3, but I put that the way air flows into the head from the JG intake manifold supplying more air to cylinders 1 and 4 due to the large intake body….im just surprised that JG did’t power port flow there manifolds in there design !!! to stop the leaning out of cylinders.

All injectors have been tested and there flow rate is very simular, fuel pressure is 42psi.

Still after advice….
Regards James

 

Hmm... I dunno. If it is running ok I dont' know what could be the problem, try putting a cat on see if that does anything. ~shrugs~ It's an idea.

 

how did you retorque the head?

 

Here's a few suggestions to check again.

Check you pcv system. I knwo when my pcv valve was loose it would smoke like what you said. However you said you remove the pcv system, so what's plugging the hole in the back of the block?


Check your turbo, maybe it's your seals. Try taking off the downpipe and check for oil. If there is oil on your downpipe then it very well could be a bad turbo seal.


HTH

 

This could be your problem.... Is your 3" exhaust custom, or a catback system? Because there is often a substance inside the mandrel bends of exhaust piping that is used when making mandrel bends. Maybe that is being burned up and is melting, when I made my exhaust for my prelude it did that until it all burned out. It seems to me that everything else has checked out. Hopefully it is something simple like that.

 

This sounds to be the problem. The pipes i just bought have an oily coating on them. It'll burn off i'm sure when it gets hot, but the exhuast takes alittle bit to get warm.

It could also be the lack of a PCV valve....

 

BLKCRX...

Is your car consuming oil at all?

 

Wut about your turbo seals?

You gotta check to see if your burning oil...and how much.

Suprdave

 

The obvious question..Are you using any fluids? Do you have to add coolant or oil? This would give you a clue.

 

 

Thanks guys for the advice, we will pull off the downpipe today and check for oil, my 3” exhaust is a custom one, at first I also thought it could be the oily residue in the exhaust system, but its still smoking after around 40+min of driving, (giving it a bit as well when driving) Coolent levels seem fine, and hav’t changed since we refilled the radiator, after draining It to retorque the head, I looked at the oil levels yesterday, and will re check them after a bit more driving, but they surely won’t low, that’s for sure.

As for my PCV system, the valve has been removed, so from the back of the block goes to the stock black catch can, then from the stock can, it T pieces into the valve cover hose, (which is running from the valve cover to the catch can, which then run’s into the catch can, the catch can then dumps to atmosphere. Im almost certain this is all correct, as its been setup as what some people call a open loop system, everything dumping to atmosphere.

Im hoping I find oil in the turbo, so its just the seals… if not hmmmm more troubleshooting I guesss… and ill be keeping eye on the oil levels for sure !!!!


Regards James

 

I am thinking the lack of a PCV in your head can cause this problem. I recently hooked my breather tube up to a hose before the turbo inlet. I get no smoke at all while driving. It used to smoke when I first started the car. Also when I sat at a light for a long time it would smoke when I took off. Try putting a PCV in, see what happens. Good Luck

 

Where abouts did you put the PCV ? bc normaly the PCV run's b/w the back of the block ie the crank case breather then into the intake mainfold.. normaly the head ie the valve breather run's into the intake mainfold directly....

or are you saying.. "return it to stock... ?"

Regrads James

 

Something like that. The PCV is attached between the IM manifold and the black box. Then you have the breather hose from the valve cover to after the air cleaner but before the turbo.

 

why did you drain the coolant to retorque the head?

 

humm ill try re setting up the PCV system then... ill be amazed if its just that causing the problem.... / smoke, as well as double checking eveything so far mentioned above...

i belive thats the way your ment to do it when you re torque.... you drain the water out of the radiator.. well i at least belive thats what we did...

Regrads James

 

Im interested to see how this all works out.....

 

ok changed the PCV system, and the smoke is still there….

We looked at the spark plugs and 1 and 4 still run lean, and 2 and 3 richer it seems like maybe there is oil burning in those cylinders maybe, which is causing the combustion to not be as efficient.

I re looked at the oil we had in there and it was 5w30, iv also noticed that the car won’t smoke at startup the engine has to be hot, and its only on high vacume ie idel/ when the fan’s come on / off throttle it starts to smoke, I was given the suggestion of trying thicker oil, so im putting in some 20w50 now, ill drive for a bit and drain the oil and put in another lot of 20w50, making sure all the 5w30 is removed. Im thinking because we went with the ring gap specs JE said maybe the oil ring’s haven’t sealed for ultra thin oil, and maybe when the oil gets hot, its seeking past the oil rings, very strange thow because we still have perfect compression.

Oil levels don’t seem to change that much even thow we can “smell” the oil out of the exhaust. The turbo checked out to be perfect, no oil in the intake or the exhaust side. Evey sign points to it being the oil rings.. but how what why I guess is the most important question, I just feel sick in the stomach that maybe we have to rebuild, and ultra check all the clearances, but we did that when we built this engine…. Im hoping this thicker oil helps / solves the problem.

Its weird though no white smoke comes out of the rocket cover, just the normal flow of clean air…

Again any input on this would be greatly appreciated.. ill know in a few hours how this thicker oil goes…


Regards James

 

ok i tried swaping out the 5w30 oil with 20w50, i did two oil change running the engine for a bit.. and then swaping out the oil and replaxing it again with 20w50 and still the smoke is there.. after the car warm's up, or is hot, when you leave it idle for 1 minute or so.... or more....
when it starts smoking..if you give it some gas it smokes as soon as ya off thottel.. and more smoke once ya leave it idle... as the vacume in the engine changes so does the level of smoke... craaapy craapy crap... all signs point to the oil ring's now...

talked to JE and they said it could be the same thing but you realy won't know untill the pistons come out.. or stem seals.. but it dos't give the symptions on start up.. so yeah there goes that idea....
after lookin for 101 ways 2 get out of pulling out my engine.. looks like thats what were goin 2 have 2 do...

Regards James

 

Have you tried a leak down test?

 

I really don't have any advice on this one but walk me through this
(for my own edumakshun).

you think it's your oil rings, but you say it only smokes when its warm or hot, not at startup. Wouldn't this make it it less likely to be a ring, due to the expansion of the ring itself?


I'm just curious

ohh and good luck with it.



[Modified by T-sohctec, 9:15 PM 12/17/2002]

 

nar we hav't done a leak down test... on it yet... ill try find someone who can do that today.. ! but what will the leak down test show.. when we know compression is 100%.. or is the leak down test more for testing the head.... ?

people who hav't looked at mycar.. say its gota be the turbo.. but we checked the wheels out and yeah.. unless its leaking only a little bit inside past the wheels...

JE said... that the rings expand with more heat.. and maybe at idle there's less heat thus why it leaks... but strange u have to let it idle for 30+ seconds sometimes for it to start doing it...

im thinking im goin 2 rip off my turbo... plug up the oil feed and see if i get the same problems... if all else fails.. out comes the new engine.. GRR !


its also strange but if i remove the radiator cap.. i sware to god... on idle.. the car dos't smoke nearly as much on idle... then if you rev rev rev.. it will smoke for 5 seconds.. then no more smoke... this is with the radiator cap off... i let it run for a while with the cap off.. filling the radiator as it gets empty.. and went for a drive and when i pulled up... waited 30 seconds.. out came the smoke again....

Regards James

 

How exactly did you retorque the head studs? Go through your procedure step by step.