On the following particular thread, https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=342066 , I was asking Nick M why my DC ceramic header was crap to him. He answered they were entry level so far as quality and performance were concerned. "just food for the thought", he said.

Well, food for the thought it has been. Now I am not looking for an all out racing header making hp gains only on high revs and sacrificing torque on the lows and mids. This I knew before buying my DC. So for me the 4-2-1 was the ideal for this application, since 99.99% of my driving is road only.

But still, for the 4-2-1 category, I would love to know which header exactly will give the best output, and is it necessarily the best bang for the buck in the headers market. I ask this particular question for budget concerns, of course, but also to give myself a larger picture of what's available in case I feel I should go on to something better.

Thanks in advance, guys.

 

Header only give you a very little hp gain..
it helps a little bit but for 300 bucks?
no worth it IMO
It will help to squeeze out few more hp
out of our accord..
"I'd hit it"
I have ceremic coat 4-1 header(w/downpipe)
warped with thermo-tec header/exhaust wraps.


[Modified by iam7head, 4:16 AM 11/30/2002]

 

Yeah, well I also have the CAI and catback bolted on. Now I know the catback performance may also vary from one company to another, but disregarding that, say you combine any 4-2-1 header with my Tanabe catback, which one sticks out?

 

They might vary by 1-2 HP. You can probably gain more HP by changing your oil and saving the $.

 

It wont make that much of a different.
go get it if you want few more hp need on the track
4-1=hi end
4-2-1=low end,middle range
I still will get it if i do it all over again.

 

lol..getting a Zex kit sounds good for 300bucks..

 

I guess you could put this is a broad issue but not always true. What are your plans for the car?

 

For now I like it to remain torquey. I already have as I said cai/h/e. Now I am in the process of swapping the auto tranny to a manual. I am adding at the same time an aluminum flywheel, and a good clutch, as well as underdrive accessories pulley kit that's been sitting in my wardrobe for the last 2 years ( ). I also plan on working the fuel pressure and maybe adjustable cam as well. All relatively simple mods, nothing that would compromise reliability, and nothing to lose torque in the lows and mids either.

Now I know what a 4-1 header does vs a 4-2-1. This is why I have a 4-2-1, and I want to remain in that style. What I want is the best performing 4-2-1 header to complete the combination.

Eventually, when budget allows me, and I get tired of mild mods and want to go to higher revs without sacrificing my torque, I would probably look into a higher compression ratio piston (10.5 - 11:1), port and polish, MSD and whatever could get the car pulling all the way to 7-7,5k rpms. But here we're talking not before a year or two, for sure.

 

Lets see here, underdrive pullies will be nice, i hope you dont expect to run anything else but the factory radio. if you serious get ride power sterring, cruise control and get a manuel sterring rack. 2nd off you want a chromoly(sp) flywheel, have been proved to last longer. I would just upragde the FPR and get a V-AFC and control fuel with that....as for the header try contacting SMSP see if he can make you up something, i have not seen a good header for the accords besides the kamikazee(sp) but that is 4-1 which u dont like...let me know any more questions or if i didnt answer smoething

 

the accords rod/stroke ratio does not yield to high rpms very kindly

 

very good point, i forgot to comment on that

 

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the accords rod/stroke ratio does not yield to high rpms very kindly
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm lost, can u explain what that means please!

 

What are the specs? What stroke does the cranshaft have, and which rod length?
Also, isn't it possible to safely "cheat" the R/S ratio by performing things like knife-edging the crankshaft, shotpeening, balancing the bottom end of the engine, and maybe a few other tricks that I don't know about?

 

i dont really think 4-2-1 is any better than 4-1 but i think what makes the difference in power is if its stainless steel or ceramic coated. ceramic coated is a little better cuz it dissipates the heat. which is bad fo yo engine.

 

Accord engines generally have a much longer stroke (distance the piston travels up and down) then its bore (size of piston around).
Stroked engines are nice when it comes to low to mid rpm torq because it gets a longer chance to burn all that fuel up, but don't like RPM because now you've got all that mass traveling up and down a further distance. With each stroke of the piston, the reciprocating mass has to stop and go in the opposite direction. Not to mention the crank has to be larger too to handle the larger stroke.
High RPM engines go to more of a square bore and stroke set up, meaning the stroke size is closer to the bore size. You loose the above disadvantages, but gain some new ones...you loose some displacement, and low end torq. Advantages? since the piston travels less distance with each stroke, the engine can rev more freely, generally meaning more hp.
Comparisons: 01 accord ex bore x stroke is 3.39 x 3.82 for 150hp@5700rpm 152ft torq@4900
01 Prelude: 3.43 x 3.57 for 200hp@7000rpm 156ft torq@5250 (notice the overall torq didn't increase much from the accord engine...but hp jumped because now we've got more rpm!!!)

phew..
j


[Modified by pyroHawk, 12:25 PM 12/1/2002]

 

Thanks Pyrohawk and y'all for your answers. Do you guys know of any dyno comparisons for 4-2-1 headers of different makes compared to stock manifold? I guess this would be the best way to see the men from the boys so far as headers are concerned.

 

Sorry man but you are way off on this one. You actually want the heat to stay in the exhaust. The hotter the air, the faster it can flow out the exhaust. Thats why I used exhaust insulating wrap on my header.

 

sorry for a long and possibly useless post but i remembered that i had this article
with dyno comparisons... the tests were done on a 94 integra gsr...

Sport Compact Car / October 1999

The Great Header Test

1994 Acura Integra GSR (150 hp, 119 lb-ft)
-AEM cold-air intake
-HKS exhaust

RS*R (153 hp, 119 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 3.7 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 2.5 lb-ft @ 7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.0 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.4 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 one piece
Header Material: Polished 304 stainless steel

Neuspeed N2 (153 hp, 120 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 4.3 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 2.9 lb-ft @ 7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.3 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.1 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 two piece
Header Material: Ceramic coated mild steel

Comptech (154 hp, 121 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 6.5 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 4.4 lb-ft @ 7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.6 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.3 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 two piece
Header Material: Stainless steel

Airmass Shocrom (153 hp, 121 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 5.5 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 3.7 lb-ft @ 7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.9 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.5 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 two piece
Header Material: Ceramic coated mild steel (blue or silver)

Mugen (155 hp, 117 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 8.3 hp @ 7700 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 5.7 lb-ft @ 7600 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.1 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: -1.1 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4 into 1 one piece
Header Material: T-304 stainless steel

DPR (152 hp, 120 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 2.2 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 1.5 lb-ft @ 7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.2 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.7 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: Modified stock manifold
Header Material: Upper: Cast iron, Lower: Stainless Steel

GReddy (155 hp, 120 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 6.0 hp @ 7700 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 4.1 lb-ft @ 7700 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.5 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 0.7 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 two piece
Header Material: Stainless Steel

PaceSetter (151 hp, 118 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 6.2 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 4.9 lb-ft @ 4800 rpm
Average Power Gain: -0.6 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.5 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 two piece
Header Material: 16-gauge mild steel

DC Sports (155 hp, 121 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 6.8 hp @ 7700 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 4.6 lb-ft @ 7700 rpm
Average Power Gain: 2.7 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.2 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4-2-1 two piece
Header Material: Polished stainless steel

DC Race Header (161 hp, 125 lb-ft)
Max Power Gain: 15.1 hp @ 7800 rpm
Max Torque Gain: 10.2 lb-ft @ 7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 7.0 hp 4700-7800 rpm
Average Power Gain: 1.0 hp 2300-5000 rpm
Header Style: 4 into 1 two piece
Header Material: Titanium

edit: added "Header Material"
edit: fixed spacing
edit: added title "The Great Header Test"

[Modified by accordexchange, 1:38 AM 12/3/2002]

[Modified by accordexchange, 1:39 AM 12/3/2002]


[Modified by accordexchange, 1:43 AM 12/3/2002]

 

Comptech= *** BEST OF THE TEST (TIE): PEAK TORQUE

Airmass Shocrom= *** BEST OF THE TEST (TIE): PEAK TORQUE

Mugen= *** BEST OF THE TEST: MAX POWER GAIN
*** BEST OF THE TEST: MAX TORQUE GAIN
*** BEST OF THE TEST (TIE): PEAK HORSEPOWER

PaceSetter= *** BEST OF THE TEST: AVERAGE POWER GAIN 2300-5000 RPM

DC Sports= *** BEST OF THE TEST: AVERAGE POWER GAIN 4700-7800 RPM
*** BEST OF THE TEST (TIE): PEAK POWER
*** BEST OF THE TEST (TIE): PEAK TORQUE

 

Very impressive, Accordexchange!
Most impressive is the DC titanium header 4-1. I'm surprised to see it performs as well, if not better in the lows and mids.
I have a ceramic coated DC. Is there any difference between this one and the polished version?
Anyways, thanks a lot, great answer

 

just the apperence

 

yo SMOKIN RUBBER ur right. hot air is easiar to push out of the engine. but u dont want that heat to be in the engine bay fo the intake to suck it back up again. hot air is bad fo the intake process. but good fo the exhaust process.

 

no prob... the thing about the DC race header is that it just dumps the exhaust under the center of the car and doesn't allow a catalytic converter to be used... pretty much imagine a test pipe that just curves downwards...

i think the polished DC header looks badass with the discoloration-haha... the ceramic coating is like a dull gray or something-however, it's supposed to help with heat and reducing heat is usually a good thing... BUT, i hear ceramic tends to crack, corrode, or whatever with the road salts, etc... ceramic coated mild steel vs. polished stainless steel is a back-and-forth debate i guess...

 

Okay, so all in all, if I make my conclusons right, for an 4-2-1 header, my ceramic DC is pretty much the best deal around. I can always look at the titanium 4-1 for all out power, but it is not a streetable header, only racing
Reassures me, I was told in 2000 when I bought it, that it was the best deal all around.

 

do you really think this is comparable to an accord?