As the title says... ITR specific of course...


AND is there a point at which MORE POWER has maxed out your stock R's suspension and brakes? Exactly how much power is this and what is the setup?

This is mostly for SCCA solo2 Street Mod class rules but, anyone can answer....


It is also mostly to figure out just when the car becomes Unbalanced as per Power to Handling...


Most agree that the Stock Suspension is Extremely good as is the cars stock Brakes... I tend to be a Learn to Drive FIRST, then improve the tires, suspension and brakes and Then more power but, what did you do and Why?

I originally wanted to mod lots of stuff,,, but, learned that the only thing that really needed modding first was the driver, Thanks Chris and Dave,,, I appreciate all of your help...


What works and What doesn't and WHY?

Tell the truth now,,,

even if you blew the motor...


Happy Holiday's,


A.


[Modified by 1GreyTeg, 6:16 AM 11/29/2002]

 

My first real mod ( I transferred my ITR rear strut bar from my GS-R when I bought the R in July but thats not serious) will be my Recaro SRDs which I hope will be here Monday. Stock seats have minimal thigh and zero shoulder bolstering. Pirelli PZeros go on the car after the Expo. Tax return will go to future track days so I can learn more on how to drive my R. Header and cat is possible too next summer.

 

I went the power route first.

Why?

Well I already knew the "upgrade driver" theory, and was doing that by tracking and autoxing the car. That, and the fact that the stock suspension was enough for such a rookie driver.

But for my own personal enjoyment, I wanted more power. My first mod was an AEM CAI, next was a VAFC and toda spec B's... (at 5k miles on the new car). I was supposed to do a header at the same time, but things didn't turn out quite right. Now I've upgraded everything except wheels/ tires/ suspension.

That, coupled with the fact that most power mods aren't visible to the majority of people enabled me to keep it relatively "sleeper." You can't really see an ATS final drive or crazy cams, y'know?

Autoxing? I honestly dropped like 5 seconds over the past year - by learning how to better drive the car, and of course with the power mods. AEM CAI put me in SM immediately anyway...

If I had it to do differently, I'd probably have added a turbo as my first mod... That and some azenis would have taken me a long way this past season...

I guess you could say I like the sleeper look.

But my mods are becoming more apparent as I'm addressing issues with the car - such as upgrading calipers, wheels, tires, and suspension (ah, finally I can get rid of this wheel gap!)...

Damn, this **** ain't cheap!


[Modified by Black R, 9:25 AM 11/29/2002]

 

I purchased my ITR 2 months ago and I also brought over parts from my old car. I kept my Mugen Pedals and front strut tower bar because they were too dope to sell to my brother w/ the car . But since then I have purchased a new Bell M2 helmet so I can finally get on the track and I need tires after that(S03's or Azenis). From then, well see. I think I want Toda flywheel/exedy clutch, And some JDM header (Spoon, Toda, Type One, JDM 4-1)??

 

My first mod was "sleeper" wheels. LOL.

Then, bucket seats. These were more than enough to have fun at autoX.

I'm more of a suspension guy... more power doesn't mean squat, if the car rolls.

 

I think the question still is answered by upgrading the driver.

If you had an ITR that had 300whp. You can still use the stock suspension and brakes, but you would just have to know the limits of the stock parts with the power. Obviously, upgrading the brakes and the suspension on this such of car would be a smart thing to do, but may not be "required" if you know what you are doing.

Whatever you do to your car, just do it in stages and learn the car for each stage.

You know that I am not the mod kind of person (maybe I am too cheap....oh, I meant frugal), but if I was going to modify an ITR I would do the following in the order listed:

1. Free up the breathing with I/H/E
2. Rollbar and racing seats
3. Brakes (just pads, SS lines, MC brace)
4. Suspension (a full coilover like Chris or Yasu)
5. Tune the engine (whatever is needed for this, I guess VAFC, fuel pressure regulator, etc. etc. ??)

I would hold off on big power until I figure out what racing series I may want to do in the future. Cams are illegal in some race organizations. But the above mods should be legal everywhere. But, If I was doing SM in autox or just want power for street, I would do cams and maybe higher compression, bigger brakes and 16" wheels, etc. etc.

 

I hope this doesn't turn into "Driver upgrade is first and only mod you'll ever need" post.

In an ideal world, if people upgrade the "driver" then, we would be able to driver like Schumacher, Kleinubing, etc. But, not every one can flat out driver (either due to commitment, physical, time, money, and other issues).

I think it's valid that careful mods will compensate for "driver mod". I do this debate w/ Jeff (pyromaster) all the time and I hope this thread is about, which mods people do, and do not bash people for modding their car before the driver was "upgraded" to fullest.

 

i went power 1st , im more of a drag racer so wanted more power 1st , the susp was good enough for me stock .
then got into auto corssing once and a while too and decided an upgraded susp would not only help for that , but also for Drag racing so did the susp then too .

 

AEM CAI 1st mod, Jun header/Random cat/Apexi WS cat back. Then removed all those mods and installed modded stock airbox w/K&N, Stock header w/test pipe, 5 Zigen cat back. I did suspension last, H&R springs, 23mm rear sway bar, JDM rear upper strut bar, 18 inch bling rims with mad grip y0! and stock gunmetals w/new 195/55 RE010's

Latest upgrade was Clutch masters stage 4 & flywheel.

 

Why be a cheap *** ricer........... work on all the aspects of the car

 

Why be a cheap *** ricer........... work on all the aspects of the car

Well balanced is the way to go ....... the R is well-balanced

 

Well, between going back and forth trying to decide if I want to keep the car or not ... I had to decide on which route to take.

I went power mods.

Everyone comments on how great the stock suspension is and how well sorted it is. Admittedly, this is true and one of the more difficult things to figure out what is the best route for upgrades. Spring rates, anti-roll bar sizes and many other considerations come into play.

Power mods are easy. Pop on the parts and you go a bit faster. That and the added benefit of minor weight reduction also makes it an easy upgrade.

 

No it won't and if it does then I will encourage the mods to close it...

Yes, I really Do want to know what everyone has done,

Mostly from a performance standpoint, so light up window washer squirters Do NOT count. But, things like Seats for added support, definately pedals, shifters and the like add to performance gains since they make You the driver more comfortable and more in control.

Most everyone here already knows that the driver is the #1 thing to improve but, that goes for Every type of car and in Every type of driving application and Not just ITR specific, I firmly believe in that. And YES I do already have a plan for my car and Yes my 2003 budget is almost spent but, hopefully spent wisely ...

This post is just to list what You've done, Why and If or How Well it all works?... It's Not for bragging...

I am interested in SCCA class rules and how your mods fit into each if you race there and also for road course HPDE's and PDA's but, am also interested in anyone that has anything interesting or that little extra to share. As well, this post could come in handy for those new guys who are curious of what To or Not to do, and still for the most of us as a reference for great Holiday gift ideas, for yourselves or others.

The Key thing that made me wonder is since the car is so balanced already, and since the suspension always seems to be a huge Taboo post here that spills worms everywhere, I was curious just how much power has to be added Before that well balanced car requires modding? We can forsee 200 WHP as definately possible but, just how much more???

And Dave is correct, the driver is the most important as well as learning and relearning what each mod does and how to react or make the car perform.


BTW Davidnyc is the "Dave" in my origional post.


Just for the record here's my list;

Comptech Icebox,
Spoon 4-2-1 header,
Carsound cat,
ATS 4.929 FD,
Toda flywheel,
OMP pedals,
Hawk blue pads "yes only for the track",
Steel wheels, Yoko AVS somethings that were free hand-me-downs, great storage tires,
Volk Te-37's with R's for autocross,
Stock wheels with Falken Azenis...

The future holds much,,, but, we are discussing the present.


Thank you, to all that have answered thus far.


A.

 

So, my bling, bling, neon, green lighted windshield washers don't add power ??

 

I agree with this list.

i've done 1,3,4 and 2 is to come.. hopefully soon.

 

i dont own a type R, i own a civic dx but i can still add a bit in.

i went with suspension and driving first, going to autox's and stuff.

why havent i swapped? because i keep getting faster with the stock motor. why swap if its obvious that im not pushing the stock one to its limit?thats just MHO. but looks like old yeller is burning oil and a swap may be inevitable soon.

 

I think the Type R priority list is switched. Although unusual, it's true. The suspension on the ITR is/was specifically made for performance while sacrificing as much comfort as possible as long as people will still buy the car. On the other hand, civics and integras are made for a different crowd and tend to different needs.

 

I didn't really think of which way to go first when I started to mod the car. I choose what I mod. based on what I think is needed after attending a few lapping days.

my list of mod.

1) intake/exhuast
2) steering wheel (don't like the stock one, waaay too big imo, feel much better in the second lapping day with the momo wheel)
3) r compound (pretty much killed the RE010 on the track, need better rubber)
4) track brake pad (stock pad not able to utilitze the r compound, in term of braking)
5) coilover (good tires, good brake, with the amount of body roll, it felt like the stock suspension are not cope with the other upgrades)

I believe in order to bring out the full potential of some performance part (ex: slick), some other parts (ie: brakes) will need to be upgrade as well to match with the improvement.

just my $.02

btw, I also bleieved in the "improve driver's skill first" theory.

 

JaeOne3345


Absolutely No disrespect intended but, I explicitly and repeatedly posted that I want this to be an Integra Type R post, SPECIFICALLY For and About the Integra Type R! I don't care about ANY other type of car...

Please DO NOT RESPOND ABOUT ANY OTHER CAR OTHER THAN THE INTEGRA TYPE R! Hope thats clear enough?

There are Reasons for this, the first of which is that It's in the Type-R forum, the second is that I clearly asked it be Type R specific and the third of a longer list is that there are Way too many variables for your car or other cars instead of being type specific with Ours,,, AND that Speaking of the ITR, you would NOT just immediately do a suspension upgrade first as you might for an EK, EG or GSR or whatever else.

Do NOT be offended and definitely don't come back with some smart assed response to try and save face. You didn't follow what the original post asked for and therefore are wrong...

Good luck,
have fun,
don't get pissed for any reason and have a Happy Holiday season!


Thanks guys, keep it coming,,,

A.





[Modified by 1GreyTeg, 4:27 PM 11/29/2002]

 

CS could you define your answers for the following,

Intake?

Exhaust?

Coilover suspension?

Name, Distributor & Price for all? As well as; Springrates? Damper adjustability?

Thanks again,

A.

 

Anton, my friend

Okay, this is my story:

First I choosed power. Reason: I was a newbie to the Type R scene and did what I did to every former car: Give it better torque and topspeed.
So I added intake, header, cams, valvetrain, throttle body..... but I was a fool !

Things I know today: The ITR runs with a 1,8l high revving engine. Impossible to make impressive torque numbers with N/A tuning.

The idea of the Type R is to be a fast cornering car. Balance, high speed through curves, control..

So that`s what I had to learn:
With my power upgrades I had been really proud, because I knew my ITR would kill every stock R straight line..
The first day I went to track with some other ITR`s, I saw an ITR with just bolt ons but serious suspension work killing other cars with the double numbers of whp...
I never had a chance... I was able to catch up on the straight but straights are short on the track and the race is won through the curves.

So I made up my mind, and this is my full setup today:

Icebox, 72mm TB, Jun stage 2 cams, crower valvetrain, JDM 4-1, HJS cat, Idol 65mm catback, Idol aluminium doublespring suspension, Racing Hart cp 035 rims, recaro alcantra seats, Mugen pedals, OMP-WRC steering wheel.

So if I had to decide again, first I would go the handling-way.

But well, now, after three years modding my car I know there may be others who are faster, but #01858 always is ready for a kill, straight or track. Doesn`t matter.

 

sorry. i didnt get offended i was just explaining myself respectfully. im ghost. keep up the good info


[Modified by JaeOne3345, 7:47 PM 11/29/2002]

 

I warned you Not to get offended and look, you did anyway... You don't have to apologize I was not intending to insult you. I just want this post to stay on topic. Too many times threads go awry and the original post gets lost.

You don't need to post on a thread to learn.

Good luck,


A.

 

I think thats a great - original - question. For me though, i haven't really gone either way yet. Intake, then rear strut bar.

 

1GreyTeg asked questions that were specifically about the ITR, not about other cars. I'm sure he would welcome an opinion of someone that drives another car (civic, mustang, minivan, whatever) as long as that person also has long-term experience driving and modifying an ITR that can contribute constructively to this thread. Jaeone's remarks, although probably made with good intentions, are about as useful as me going into the NSX forum and, in a similar thread, posting my opinion about the ITR's engine, suspension, etc. IT'S JUST NOT RELEVANT.

The last thing this thread needs is a civic owner with an inferiority complex crawling out of the woodwork waiving the "elitism" flag.