92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
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92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
It's been a while since my last upgrades. Check out my other posts on previous upgrades.
This civic is a modified CX (new rear wiper/washer, cruise control, tilt steering wheel, passenger electric side mirror control, new instrument cluster, ect.) and in need of a full upgrade for both front and rear suspensions. The rear brakes are drum brakes and NOT looking to upgrade to disk brakes NOR looking to upgrade to power steering.
I'm looking for a very very smooth comfortable drive, NOT for performance and NOT for racing; and the rims are not factory and are likely not the same size as the factor wheels, so probably need camber stuff. We've got lots of pot holes around our area and want something that can handle bumps like a champ.
This is a daily driver. I'd like to know all suggestions about how to do this. Looking for new parts when available, but on a budget when that makes sense. Otherwise, price is not that important. Comfort and safety is the goal. Don't just want the cheapest china replica stuff.
Looking for advice on quality parts, part numbers, part names, different sellers, including things like new trailing arms. Anything that touches the suspension.
This civic is a modified CX (new rear wiper/washer, cruise control, tilt steering wheel, passenger electric side mirror control, new instrument cluster, ect.) and in need of a full upgrade for both front and rear suspensions. The rear brakes are drum brakes and NOT looking to upgrade to disk brakes NOR looking to upgrade to power steering.
I'm looking for a very very smooth comfortable drive, NOT for performance and NOT for racing; and the rims are not factory and are likely not the same size as the factor wheels, so probably need camber stuff. We've got lots of pot holes around our area and want something that can handle bumps like a champ.
This is a daily driver. I'd like to know all suggestions about how to do this. Looking for new parts when available, but on a budget when that makes sense. Otherwise, price is not that important. Comfort and safety is the goal. Don't just want the cheapest china replica stuff.
Looking for advice on quality parts, part numbers, part names, different sellers, including things like new trailing arms. Anything that touches the suspension.
Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
My prescription :
New rubber bushings all over - Hardrace
- You can use poly in places like sway bars, steering rack mounts, etc, and not affect ride/NVH too much but do not do poly for the front or rear compliance bushings. Keep those rubber.
Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)
- Putting bars above dampers on the list because you'll want to get your roll stiffness from the bars and then you can keep your main springs more compliant
Good quality single adjustable coilovers - 8k fr/6k rr (~450fr/336rr, same as the old off the shelf ground control rates)
- I'm going to plug Cygnus Performance and his custom FA builds again because I'm so over the moon with mine. He does a comfort-spec valving that will probably be right up your alley. Get the Swift spring upgrade. Whatever you get, opt for the upgraded springs if they are an option and/or the base springs are not already Swift/Hyperco/Eibach.
- The CX is stupid light, there's no reason to go stiffer than this for an all-street setup.
Keep the lowering to less than 2". Something in the neighborhood of 12"-12.5" (305mm-318mm) from the wheel center to the fender lip, both front and rear. Adding a little rake will help keep the car over its front tires, improving traction off of corners and helping the car feel more neutral through them.
Skip the camber kits. Shim the rear camber arms so you have 1 less degree rear than whatever the stock arms give you at your ride height, but aim for 2-2.5 degrees in the front if you decide to go adjustable. Zero toe front, 3mm total toe in rear.
New rubber bushings all over - Hardrace
- You can use poly in places like sway bars, steering rack mounts, etc, and not affect ride/NVH too much but do not do poly for the front or rear compliance bushings. Keep those rubber.
Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)
- Putting bars above dampers on the list because you'll want to get your roll stiffness from the bars and then you can keep your main springs more compliant
Good quality single adjustable coilovers - 8k fr/6k rr (~450fr/336rr, same as the old off the shelf ground control rates)
- I'm going to plug Cygnus Performance and his custom FA builds again because I'm so over the moon with mine. He does a comfort-spec valving that will probably be right up your alley. Get the Swift spring upgrade. Whatever you get, opt for the upgraded springs if they are an option and/or the base springs are not already Swift/Hyperco/Eibach.
- The CX is stupid light, there's no reason to go stiffer than this for an all-street setup.
Keep the lowering to less than 2". Something in the neighborhood of 12"-12.5" (305mm-318mm) from the wheel center to the fender lip, both front and rear. Adding a little rake will help keep the car over its front tires, improving traction off of corners and helping the car feel more neutral through them.
Skip the camber kits. Shim the rear camber arms so you have 1 less degree rear than whatever the stock arms give you at your ride height, but aim for 2-2.5 degrees in the front if you decide to go adjustable. Zero toe front, 3mm total toe in rear.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 14
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Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
My prescription :
New rubber bushings all over - Hardrace
- You can use poly in places like sway bars, steering rack mounts, etc, and not affect ride/NVH too much but do not do poly for the front or rear compliance bushings. Keep those rubber.
Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)
- Putting bars above dampers on the list because you'll want to get your roll stiffness from the bars and then you can keep your main springs more compliant
Good quality single adjustable coilovers - 8k fr/6k rr (~450fr/336rr, same as the old off the shelf ground control rates)
- I'm going to plug Cygnus Performance and his custom FA builds again because I'm so over the moon with mine. He does a comfort-spec valving that will probably be right up your alley. Get the Swift spring upgrade. Whatever you get, opt for the upgraded springs if they are an option and/or the base springs are not already Swift/Hyperco/Eibach.
- The CX is stupid light, there's no reason to go stiffer than this for an all-street setup.
Keep the lowering to less than 2". Something in the neighborhood of 12"-12.5" (305mm-318mm) from the wheel center to the fender lip, both front and rear. Adding a little rake will help keep the car over its front tires, improving traction off of corners and helping the car feel more neutral through them.
Skip the camber kits. Shim the rear camber arms so you have 1 less degree rear than whatever the stock arms give you at your ride height, but aim for 2-2.5 degrees in the front if you decide to go adjustable. Zero toe front, 3mm total toe in rear.
New rubber bushings all over - Hardrace
- You can use poly in places like sway bars, steering rack mounts, etc, and not affect ride/NVH too much but do not do poly for the front or rear compliance bushings. Keep those rubber.
Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)
- Putting bars above dampers on the list because you'll want to get your roll stiffness from the bars and then you can keep your main springs more compliant
Good quality single adjustable coilovers - 8k fr/6k rr (~450fr/336rr, same as the old off the shelf ground control rates)
- I'm going to plug Cygnus Performance and his custom FA builds again because I'm so over the moon with mine. He does a comfort-spec valving that will probably be right up your alley. Get the Swift spring upgrade. Whatever you get, opt for the upgraded springs if they are an option and/or the base springs are not already Swift/Hyperco/Eibach.
- The CX is stupid light, there's no reason to go stiffer than this for an all-street setup.
Keep the lowering to less than 2". Something in the neighborhood of 12"-12.5" (305mm-318mm) from the wheel center to the fender lip, both front and rear. Adding a little rake will help keep the car over its front tires, improving traction off of corners and helping the car feel more neutral through them.
Skip the camber kits. Shim the rear camber arms so you have 1 less degree rear than whatever the stock arms give you at your ride height, but aim for 2-2.5 degrees in the front if you decide to go adjustable. Zero toe front, 3mm total toe in rear.
Your response is very technical, which will require much research on my part, because it's my first dive into suspension specs and related technical language. I'm sure others will be in my boat when approaching this topic. I feel a little intimidated at first, but I will learn this stuff and conquer.
Does anyone else agree with spAdam 's suggestions?
Are there any other suggestions and advice? All information and suggestions will be really helpful as I learn and research my options for the 92-95 EG Civic CX comfortable ride I'm going for!
If you have the knowledge please share it, because it will help me and others looking to tackle this complicated topic. This kind of talk helps many 92-95 Civic EG owners. Not all of us want to do engine swaps, we just want the best daily driver we can have (With Excellent Gas Milage!).
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Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
My prescription :
New rubber bushings all over - Hardrace
- You can use poly in places like sway bars, steering rack mounts, etc, and not affect ride/NVH too much but do not do poly for the front or rear compliance bushings. Keep those rubber.
Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)
- Putting bars above dampers on the list because you'll want to get your roll stiffness from the bars and then you can keep your main springs more compliant
Good quality single adjustable coilovers - 8k fr/6k rr (~450fr/336rr, same as the old off the shelf ground control rates)
- I'm going to plug Cygnus Performance and his custom FA builds again because I'm so over the moon with mine. He does a comfort-spec valving that will probably be right up your alley. Get the Swift spring upgrade. Whatever you get, opt for the upgraded springs if they are an option and/or the base springs are not already Swift/Hyperco/Eibach.
- The CX is stupid light, there's no reason to go stiffer than this for an all-street setup.
Keep the lowering to less than 2". Something in the neighborhood of 12"-12.5" (305mm-318mm) from the wheel center to the fender lip, both front and rear. Adding a little rake will help keep the car over its front tires, improving traction off of corners and helping the car feel more neutral through them.
Skip the camber kits. Shim the rear camber arms so you have 1 less degree rear than whatever the stock arms give you at your ride height, but aim for 2-2.5 degrees in the front if you decide to go adjustable. Zero toe front, 3mm total toe in rear.
New rubber bushings all over - Hardrace
- You can use poly in places like sway bars, steering rack mounts, etc, and not affect ride/NVH too much but do not do poly for the front or rear compliance bushings. Keep those rubber.
Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)
- Putting bars above dampers on the list because you'll want to get your roll stiffness from the bars and then you can keep your main springs more compliant
Good quality single adjustable coilovers - 8k fr/6k rr (~450fr/336rr, same as the old off the shelf ground control rates)
- I'm going to plug Cygnus Performance and his custom FA builds again because I'm so over the moon with mine. He does a comfort-spec valving that will probably be right up your alley. Get the Swift spring upgrade. Whatever you get, opt for the upgraded springs if they are an option and/or the base springs are not already Swift/Hyperco/Eibach.
- The CX is stupid light, there's no reason to go stiffer than this for an all-street setup.
Keep the lowering to less than 2". Something in the neighborhood of 12"-12.5" (305mm-318mm) from the wheel center to the fender lip, both front and rear. Adding a little rake will help keep the car over its front tires, improving traction off of corners and helping the car feel more neutral through them.
Skip the camber kits. Shim the rear camber arms so you have 1 less degree rear than whatever the stock arms give you at your ride height, but aim for 2-2.5 degrees in the front if you decide to go adjustable. Zero toe front, 3mm total toe in rear.
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From: USA
Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
Interested to hear if you go with those spring rates and how they ride. 450 #/in in the front seems mighty stiff. I know the factory springs front in EM were 200.
I have been happy with my ground control setup which uses Eibach springs. Currently 340/250 front/rear. Mild drop, no camber arms. type r rear swaybar with subframe stiffener.
I have been happy with my ground control setup which uses Eibach springs. Currently 340/250 front/rear. Mild drop, no camber arms. type r rear swaybar with subframe stiffener.
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Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
It’s not super stiff if the damping is correct on the dampers. You also have to take lowering into account, if you ran 200lb/in (I think that works out to ~3.5kg/mm) with just about any lowering you’d spend all day bouncing off of the bump stops and the car would ride and handle like absolute trash because of it. Arguably, to keep the car out of the weeds you need to double your spring rates if you cut your available stroke in half - there’s obviously a bit more to it than that but it gives you an idea of what you are doing.
I’m running 10k/8k BUT I will openly admit that I am more tolerant to a stiff setup than the typical person. I also tune with packers and use the bump stops as part of my setup.
I’m running 10k/8k BUT I will openly admit that I am more tolerant to a stiff setup than the typical person. I also tune with packers and use the bump stops as part of my setup.
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Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
It’s not super stiff if the damping is correct on the dampers. You also have to take lowering into account, if you ran 200lb/in (I think that works out to ~3.5kg/mm) with just about any lowering you’d spend all day bouncing off of the bump stops and the car would ride and handle like absolute trash because of it. Arguably, to keep the car out of the weeds you need to double your spring rates if you cut your available stroke in half - there’s obviously a bit more to it than that but it gives you an idea of what you are doing.
I’m running 10k/8k BUT I will openly admit that I am more tolerant to a stiff setup than the typical person. I also tune with packers and use the bump stops as part of my setup.
I’m running 10k/8k BUT I will openly admit that I am more tolerant to a stiff setup than the typical person. I also tune with packers and use the bump stops as part of my setup.
Thanks for getting this going again everyone!!! It's time to upgrade and do maintenance.
Thank you also for admitting you like stiffness. I can only assume that GreatWave is right, because you have a lot of posts and comments. Thanks spAdam for all your activity and involvement on this forum. Respect!
I don't like stiffness, hence the title of this post followed by my written explanation "very very smooth comfortable drive..." is desired. This is what I desire. NOT stiffness. We have mad pot holes around my area and I don't race, because I am still sporting the original CX engine and never plan to use turbo or swap crazy fast engines. No need. I bought the car for fuel efficiency, only! I will rebuild this engine next, after this suspension upgrade and more money is ready for the engine maintenance.
spAdam, I do not want "Integra DC2R bars front & rear (24mm fr, 21mm-22mm rr)" because I dislike stiffness.
Also, spAdam, I do not want "roll stiffness from [any] bars", because I will never plan to install a bar in my vehicle, for the reasons stated above.
Regarding coilovers, I appreciate your suggestions about how stiff to buy and set the coilovers, however, I'm not an expert and am concerned about the relevance of the specs considering you like stiffness and I want only comfort, especially going over potholes and speed bumps or pulling into gas stations, because that's the extent of use for the car.
I would like to hear what you have to say spAdam, and would like to hear revised or other possible recommendations, because I am finally about to buy parts for the full front and rear suspension re-work.
Regarding this also, spAdam, I really appreciate the advice about Hardrace rubber, because this is PERFECT ADVICE for this post. I will be buying these very soon, as a part of this upgrade and maintenance.
We all just need better more specific advice for OUR situation, not the stiff advice.
Respect
Re: 92-95 EG Civic Comfortable Ride: New Front & Rear Suspension
I stick to my original prescription. 8k/6k is a very comfortable and daily-able setup if the dampers are valved properly, it will surprise you how compliant a good suspension is at those rates.
The bar suggestion allows you to retain your compliance in the main springs while still helping the car to corner flat and not fall over on its outside tires if you push it at all. Type R bars are really not that huge at all, the front is the same as all other Integras and the rear is still smaller than just about anything available in the aftermarket. If you are really opposed to the rear bar, I'd highly suggest still running the front and maybe try to find yourself a lower trim (everything except an R) rear bar - I can't remember if they were 14mm or 15mm. Ultimately the car will just be more composed with bars than without, at any stiffness.
You could probably come down another "k" in the rear to 5kg/mm and get even a bit more ride compliance as most of what you feel as a passenger comes from the rears because these cars are so light over the back. More of a front-rear split than that and the car will start to feel numb and under-steery at any speed. You could likely get away with going down to 7k/5k because the CX is so light all around, even with all of the extra accessories you've added. It's also worth discussing what tires you are planning to use, because if you're running some all season Ling Lings or Sumitomos on the car than none of this matters and the car is going to ride and handle like poop on any spring rates.
Decouple "stiffness" and "smoothness" or "comfortable" a bit in your mind. Obviously there's an upper limit on how much spring you can put in the car and still call it comfortable on the street (my 00 is right there lol), but you can very much end up with an uncomfortable and bouncy car by going with too soft of springs.
If you talk to Geoff @ Cygnus he'll likely suggest the same rates. Pretty sure his comfort spec is 8k/6k. He's sold hundreds (if not thousands including Fortune Auto) of Civic/Integra sets and has the experience and feedback to stick by those rates - and his custom valving is on-point. Your valving will also be specific to whatever spring rates you choose (and flexible +/- 2k or 3k), which makes all of the difference compared to an old twin-tube Koni with off the shelf damping. Konis were great 25 years ago when there was way less on the market, but there is just way better stuff available today.
Seriously, reach out to Geoff and have a conversation with the guy. He's super knowledgeable and doesn't want to sell you something you're not going to be happy with.
The bar suggestion allows you to retain your compliance in the main springs while still helping the car to corner flat and not fall over on its outside tires if you push it at all. Type R bars are really not that huge at all, the front is the same as all other Integras and the rear is still smaller than just about anything available in the aftermarket. If you are really opposed to the rear bar, I'd highly suggest still running the front and maybe try to find yourself a lower trim (everything except an R) rear bar - I can't remember if they were 14mm or 15mm. Ultimately the car will just be more composed with bars than without, at any stiffness.
You could probably come down another "k" in the rear to 5kg/mm and get even a bit more ride compliance as most of what you feel as a passenger comes from the rears because these cars are so light over the back. More of a front-rear split than that and the car will start to feel numb and under-steery at any speed. You could likely get away with going down to 7k/5k because the CX is so light all around, even with all of the extra accessories you've added. It's also worth discussing what tires you are planning to use, because if you're running some all season Ling Lings or Sumitomos on the car than none of this matters and the car is going to ride and handle like poop on any spring rates.
Decouple "stiffness" and "smoothness" or "comfortable" a bit in your mind. Obviously there's an upper limit on how much spring you can put in the car and still call it comfortable on the street (my 00 is right there lol), but you can very much end up with an uncomfortable and bouncy car by going with too soft of springs.
If you talk to Geoff @ Cygnus he'll likely suggest the same rates. Pretty sure his comfort spec is 8k/6k. He's sold hundreds (if not thousands including Fortune Auto) of Civic/Integra sets and has the experience and feedback to stick by those rates - and his custom valving is on-point. Your valving will also be specific to whatever spring rates you choose (and flexible +/- 2k or 3k), which makes all of the difference compared to an old twin-tube Koni with off the shelf damping. Konis were great 25 years ago when there was way less on the market, but there is just way better stuff available today.
Seriously, reach out to Geoff and have a conversation with the guy. He's super knowledgeable and doesn't want to sell you something you're not going to be happy with.
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