What do we think? I'm running a smaller stroke than an H22a after the build and a stock crank pulley, what do we think about removing the balancer shaft belt?

Or more importantly, what forces is the balancerr shaft belt countering and what creates them?

 

Yea, i'd like to know more about this as well. I am considering removing the balancer shaft belt from my H22a.

Regards,
Mark

 

The balance shafts balance secondary forces caused by the recipricating mass. Unfortunately on inline 4 motors primary forces can be balanced, but secondary forces cannot be balanced.

Secondary forces and what causes them will seriously mess with your head. Doing a search on 'secondary forces balance shaft' this was one of the better links I found. http://www.thrashercharged.com/tech_...ne_design.shtm Go down the page to "use of balance shafts (use a 4 cylinder engine for your analysis)" Otherwise I can suggest a book or two.

You're still using your aftermarket pistons, right? This will help reduce secondary forces. Anyway, the balance shafts are in there primarily for comfort more than anything else.

 

you could, but i wouldn't, Honda obviously put them their for a reason

 

Take those things out yo. It will vibrate like **** when its at idle but will lay down some nice power without the shafts. Go for it.

 

it only add like up to ~12hp with them out


$15k in my motor, and i damn sure kept em

 

Yes, but Honda also put 16 inch rims on the car for a reason. They put a weight damper on the front of the car for a reason. The put A/C standard on the car for a reason. They gave it 10:1 compression for a reason and they made the engine naturally asperated for a reason. As long as you understand the reasons for the item being on the engine, what it does, and will tolerate the consequences of removing it or replacing it with something else, then changing what Honda does is perfectly acceptable.

 

Yes I will stil have the Arias pistons...long F20B rods and a balanced of course. Stock crank pulley on.

So do you think the actual shafts should come out and have the holes plugged or just dissconnect the belt?

Boosted 12whp across the band is a boatload N/A!!


[Modified by satan_srv, 6:02 PM 11/19/2002]

 

if you take them out you will have to have the oil holes filled in. You can just pull the belt off and it will be the same thing, but you didn't get rid of the part you just quite using it. I would say remove them, seal off the oil spots and put a piece of sheetmetal over the spaces where the shafts were. You get a pretty fair amount of power out of just the imporvement of parastic loss, but it will idle like ***. Worse than with the ES motor mounts.

 

Well I'm getting ES motor mounts anyway....will it matter?

 

oh, yeah, belive me ~12whp is a ton for N/A BUT, i persoanlly wanted to keep mine for reliability, since i cam already trying to push out a lot of power, i want to keep anything that will prolong then engine life


wait... you already had the F20 crank balanced??? damn, you work fast

 

No no not balanced yet...but it will be...okay filling in the holes and stuff is too hardcore..I just won't run the belt

 

Leave the belt off, decide if you like it or not, and then maybe put it back on later. I wouldnt go through with all the hassle of removing the shafts completely, they only weigh a few pounds each. BTW, good choice on the F20B as opposed to H23/VTEC

 

THanks I get the crank and rods tonight...I'll post pics!

 

Joel:

Where did you get the 2.0 Liter crank/rods?

Regards,
Mark

 

12 hp gain ? Was this measured or a guesstimate ? Those shafts had next to
no resistance at all when I was putting in the new timing and bal shaft belts.
Thats more than most other NA mods on the motor


[Modified by Mover, 10:15 PM 11/19/2002]

 

You mean you tried spinning them and there wasn't much resistance?
In anyway, I've heard once the engine is running they spin a pool of of oil, considering the oil is under pressure and high rpm it would make a difference.

Acura RSX doesn't have balancer shafts, what it does have is new hydralic engine mounts that do a good job of dampening the vibrations. I'm actually eager to try this myself too, but I'd rather hear from those who've done it.

 

Thats what I meant... similar to the ps pump. One of the guys in the Motorola cup suggested this years ago but I never figured it would free up THAT much power

 

I got it local from a guy for about $250 US

 

Well, the b series doesn't have them. Most other inline 4's don't have them. None of the 600 motorcycles have them and they rev to 15000. Sure they are "buzzy" at certain RPM's, but they don't fly appart. So, I don't think they are critical components. They just reduce some vibration, which is good for marketing a high-end honda, they may also help reliability some. If you are desperate for power I would disconnect them. The second order forces alwaysl exist from the inline 4 configuration, but with the balancer shafts they are cancelled out some within the block and don't make it to the motor mounts.

As far as removing them, it would be a lot easier to just take the belt off. You can take the shafts out to save weight, but then you have to plug a big hole where the front shaft comes out of the block. You can plug the oiling holes by just rotating the bearing shells to cover the holes.

 

It seems like its there for luxury reasons. But did anyone do this on this board?

 

Has anyone VERIFIED the amout of power it'll free up ? ( approx 12 hp or 2-4 hp ? )

 

I took mine off when I was dyno'ing my car and I got a +8WHP reading on a mustang dyno just by taking the belt off. It was like +3 accross the board and at 4K it spiked to 8 till redline.

 

I take it you mean it peaked @4000rpm (+8 hp)
and from over 4k rpm to redline it was approx +3 hp. Is that right ?

You wouldn't happen to have a graph you could post



[Modified by Mover, 4:59 PM 11/20/2002]

 

My understanding is that Mustang dyno's read significantly lower.

How were the vibrations after you removed them?