The starter is intermittent on my wife's 2002 Civic Si; I need to replace it. Since it has a standard transmission, the starter is under the intake manifold close to the block. The service manual says to remove it from underneath, but after looking at it for a while, that seems impossible. I think that the best—maybe the only—way to get to the starter is to remove the intake manifold and access it from above.

I'd appreciate any words of wisdom from anyone on this forum who has replaced a starter in a standard transmission Civic. My limited experience with this car and another Honda car leads me to believe there may be lots of nuts and bolts that will be nearly impossible to remove and reinstall. If anyone knows any tricks or things to watch out for please share your knowledge.

Thanks in advance for any assistance anyone can offer.

 

2002 SI? So a K series.

Remove the intake manifold and go out the top. Be extremely careful of the knock sensor bolted to the block behind the starter. The electrical plug on the knock sensor is extremely fragile.

 

Thanks. Anything special to watch for on the intake manifold itself?

 

I'm going to keep this going for a while to detail what I've run into replacing the starter. Someone in a similar situation may find this information useful.

First, the service manual describes removing and replacing the starter from underneath the car. I read the post by Ryanthegreat1 (thank you buy the way) that this was easier to do if the intake manifold was removed, and that's what I did. I can tell you definitively that there is NO WAY I could have gotten the starter out without removing the intake manifold.

Removing the manifold is fairly straightforward. There is the usual Honda-ism of no room, everything in the way, etc, etc. Throttle body has to come off to get to one bolt. There are two stud bolts, good idea except the manifold can't be removed until the one on the passenger side is backed out. There is a valve mounted on top of the water return, nice shiny brass plug with a plastic tee and two hoses, one to the intake manifold, the other to the air intake box. I broke the intake manifold side of the tee trying to get the hose off.

This valve is supposed to open and create an intentional vacuum leak when the engine is cold in order to raise the idle RPM. After a few minutes of , "Thats for WHAT now???" I decided I'd be better off without it. I plugged the intake manifold connection and the air intake connection and left the valve in place. I think this will be better anyway.

Must have been a slow day at Honda when they designed the intake manifold and the "intentional vacuum leak" valve.

I removed the knock sensor connector and the sensor itself before taking the starter out. The bolt on the motor side of the starter is weird, sort of an extended bolt which makes it a lot easier to get out and back in rather than a standard bolt that couldn't have been reached. The solenoid connection is only a push on clip. I got that off ok but crimped it down slightly before I put the new starter back in. With the manifold on it would be theoretically possible to get to that connection but actually almost impossible to do.

I decided to go with a new Bosch starter which cost less than a rebuilt Denso plus there was no core charge. I've used Bosch parts in the past with good success; hopefully this one will hold up.

Going back in I started the outside (easy to get to) bolt, left the starter loose, then started the back bolt. Big mistake! Trying to hold the starter and start the bolt resulted in getting it cross threaded and although I stopped before I did any real damage it left a burr on the first thread. I took out the other bolt and removed the starter; I was still unable to get the back bolt started. After an hour or two of brushing the threads and carefully trying to get it in I got a 10-1.25 tap at the hardware store and being VERY CAREFUL I managed to thread the tap in and repair the burr on the thread.

This time I put the starter in place and started the outer bolt but I went all the way in with it and snugged it down. This held the starter in place and I was able to easily start the back bolt. I torqued both bolts down, then put the manifold and throttle body loosely in place plugged in all the plugs I'd taken out except the fuel pump. Hooked up the battery, turned the switch and the engine cranked. So starter in, it works. I decided to replace the bypass hose and thermostat since they were right there with the manifold off. I ordered both parts, due here next week.

I've cleaned everything off and am ready to put the manifold back on when I get the hose and thermostat. I started the driver side stud bolt then with a Dremel I cut a slot in the other stud. I'll use a screwdriver to put that stud in when I put the manifold back on. That would have been a simple thing for Honda to do but I suppose they didn't consider that.

I have to say, in my opinion this is a very poor design. It seems no consideration was given to service and even little things that would have made repair much easier were ignored. Fortunately I have other vehicles to drive and so three or four weeks to replace a starter isn't a big deal. (I once replaced a starter on a Jeep CJ on an offroad trail in about ten minutes not counting hitching a ride to the local Auto Zone). If you own one of these cars and depend on it, I suggest you have a backup plan or vehicle for when parts fail, as they will.

I'll add another post once I have it all back together and running.

 

I finally got everything back together and running. Yeah!

After the starter was in I decided to replace the 23-year-old bypass hose which was easy to access with the manifold off and almost impossible with it on; and the thermostat. I wanted to use a Gates hose which Amazon could send me but there'd be a five-week wait. I finally ordered one from the local Napa store. When it came in it was wrong, but the Napa guy found another hose that was similar enough to work. I had to cut a couple of inches off one end but it went in with no problem.

The thermostat was another story. It is in a half housing that bolts to another half housing with three bolts. The other housing has three brass inserts. All the bolts were galled. Two came off with a lot of force but the insert stripped on the third one. I spent a couple of hours fooling with it; the insert finally came out leaving a big hole in the ear of the housing where it had been. Luckily it was in the outer position. I was able to use a 3/8 inch bolt and nut on that ear and with the other two bolts tightened it down. I put some water in and pressured it up; no leaks and 16 lbs of pressure held. I should probably have replaced the housing but I thought I'd probably break something else doing that and the 3/8 bolt seemed to work just fine.

So that took a day. The next day I carefully gave the manifold and block a final wipe down and bolted it back on beginning at 5 ft-lbs torque and increasing 5 ft-lbs at a time until I got to 16. I bolted the throttle body on, hooked up the water, vacuum, fuel lines, and connectors, topped off the radiator, and fired it up.

It ran really rough, idle surging around 2000 RPM, and threw a P1519 code and a couple of others. I immediately thought it had a vacuum leak and thought it was probably leaking around the manifold for some reason. So that was day 2.

Today I looked up the code; it was "Idle Air Control Valve circuit high". After some checking and head-scratching I found the IAC valve on the bottom end of the throttle body close to the radiator and lo and behold it wasn't plugged in. It took a few minutes of wiggling my hands into another impossibly small space but I got it plugged in. Reset the ECU, started it up, did an idle recalibrate and now it's running just fine.

Lessons learned: Write stuff down, take pictures, use checklists. Plan on stripped and galled bolts; nuts that are almost impossible to start in tiny spaces. Be ready for parts that are not in stock anywhere or may be the wrong part. The process of repairing or replacing something will probably break something else. Allow lots and lots of extra time - in my case what should have been a simple half-day starter replacement took almost four weeks. Have one or more backup vehicles.

And most importantly, NEVER EVER work on a Honda car if you have an acetylene cutting rig in the same garage. Several times during this nightmare I almost fired my rig up and cut the Honda into little pieces to be sold as scrap!

I hope this helps someone. Good luck!