I know there are loads of forums that probably answer most of my questions, but I figured I'd make my own post so it's easy to find.

So I have a 98 Civic LX with 236k, everything completely bone stock. Everything in the driveline is starting to show its age, and it's about that time for a new water pump/timing belt. So instead of doing preventative maintenance, why not just swap out everything?

After some research, I know the basics of what i need. Obviously the engine, trans, harness, an eg subframe, etc. But what about ecu, axles, a/c lines, relocation of certain things in the engine bay etc? My end goal is to keep the stock look and have a pretty budget friendly build. It's going to be daily driven, but something I can have fun in. Currently I found a 06 civic si that, from my little research, should have a k20z3 with a 6 speed LSD in it, as a donor car. I haven't completed the deal on that yet, but from what I've read that should for the most part be plug and play right?

Any and all help is much appreciated. I am a Ford tech who knows his way around a car, but this Honda stuff is pretty new to me.

 

You better be getting an AMAZING deal on this donor car because there are a host of issues that you will run into in this case. The engine harness does NOT work. You will need either an OE '02-04 RSX Type S engine harness or an aftermarket K20 swap harness like a Rywire or Wireworx engine harness. The former will need to have the VSS plug/wiring modified... the latter will be plug-n-play if you order/option it correctly. You will also need a chassis specific "conversion harness" to work with your Civic and the engine harness. The VSS on the Si transmission is the wrong type for your chassis... you will need a speedo signal converter (KTuned) and it will have to be hard wired into the engine harness near the ECU to convert the transmissions high-frequency output signal to a low-frequency output signal that the ECU and your instrument cluster will understand. The throttle body on the Z3 engine is a "drive-by-wire" unit... it is not compatible with your swap chassis. You will need to purchase an aftermarket cable type T/B... I would recommend a stock OE Type S throttle body if you can get it or a CAST version such as a Skunk2 Alpha or KTuned product. The Si (Z3) ECU will not work. You will need either a RSX-S (PRB) ECU if you can find one, or a Base RSX (PND) so that you can use the intake runner control circuit to operate the reverse lock out solenoid on the transmission. If you don't care about this, you can also use an '02-05 Si (PNF) ECU. After you select the ECU foundation that you intend to use, you will have to get a Hondata KPro installed into it for proper tuning. Shift cables will work if you purchase an aftermarket shifter specifically for a Z3 cable set... like the Hybrid Racing Z3 "Bolt-In" shifter. You will also need a set of aftermarket axles or OE EP3 or Base axles. You will also need a set of HASPORT EKK2 mounts, a K-Swap header and radiator, Z3 swap radiator hoses and a fuel pressure regulator and fuel lines. There will be a few small items like a throttle cable and bracket and heater hoses as well.

Does all of this sound like it will fit your budget ?

 

Lots of good info, I appreciate it. So the guy with that donor car has pretty much ghosted, sounds like for the better. So it sounds like the better option for me as far as ease and less converting is to find an 01-04? K20a or K20a2. I had found a really good price on a k20a jdm, but he sold it as he was messaging me. From what I've heard, those are good choices if I'm going N/A (which I am.) In a perfect world I'd find a wrecked ITR or RSX Type S and pull the guts and transfer.
I did realize yesterday looking at parts, that i would need a cable TB for my car, and I had just read about the VSS on the newer stuff not working. I also had briefly looked up custom engine harnesses, but those arent quite in the budget. But as far as ecu, one of my main questions, which one would be the best for my year car? I'm sure it all depends on which engine I end up with, but after some more research, I'm leaning more on trying to find K20a or K20a2. From what you said, sounds like an RSX one would be a better option.
Again appreciate all of the info.

 

you forgot to tell him that in order to use the EKK2 kit you need and EG/DC subframe

more budget $$$ right there

 

None of it is really plug and play at all, honestly. There is a lot of aftermarket support out there, but that as you are discovering is $$$.

 

Yes, I do know the ekk2 mounts are pricy. I did find an eg subframe for cheap, with a manual rack. And I know it's not exactly plug and play. Wrong choice of words. More so it'll work with some adapting.

 

I didn't have to tell him... the OP already mentioned it.

 

ah yes. i skipped over that part in my speed reading

 

I'd probably try to look for a reasonable priced, healthy K24 long block or donor car with a K24.

Hybrid-Racing used to offer a free K swap guide which mentioned a lot of the nuances and compatibility differences between different K24/K20 engines, I'm not sure if it's still available on their site. Used to be able to just enter your email on a page there and they'd send you a PDF.

I do agree 110% that going the K Swap route these days makes infinitely more sense than pissing upstream with a B or D build.

Edit: They still have the guide listed on their website but I don't see anywhere to download it. I do have a guide for installing the EGK1 system in an EG, let me know if you want that and I can PM you a copy. I also have a Helms shop manual for an 02-06 RSX. Surprisingly I don't see a local copy of the Hybrid Racing K Swap guide, I'd have figured I would have saved it.

 

Awesome. Yes I would really appreciate it if you send me what you have. I'll look on their website and maybe contact someone to see if they still have it to download somewhere.
And yes, I thought about just rebuilding my little D series, but for all of that and only gain minimal power; K series I believe is the way to go. Not looking to build a race car, but a 'sleeper' street car is they way I want to go. And to make everything look nice and tidy under the hood like it should haha.
Would you need my email or can you send it through here? I'm still pretty new to forums.

 

You should have just gotten an email from me.

 

I did. Much appreciated

 

So I found a pretty good deal on an 04-06 tsx k24a2, and a 6speed with 2nd gear popping out. I can rebuild/upgrade the trans no problem. But my question is electrically with getting into the newer stuff how difficult is it to complete the swap? As jrcivic1 was explaining, getting my car to communicate with a donor ecu (from a 04-08 tsx) to the rest of the engine components. Also, I'm seeing every k24a2 advertised as 04-08, are they exactly identical in that range?

 

If I remember right, specifically the 06-08 TSX cams are some of the best OEM cams available for the K series engines, on-par with the DC5 ITR camshafts. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong because I'm pretty rusty on K series stuff.

I'd highly recommend sending Hybrid-Racing an email and ask them if they can send you their full swap guide PDF, it should include some of the "gotcha" stuff like what you're mentioning. It may even be worth considering a "cheaper" standalone ECU option if you can find one (Link ECU, AEM, Haltech).

Paging @JRCivic1.

 

Chance EG is correct in stating that the '06-08 TSX cam package is just a touch spicier than the '04-05 versions, however, the hot set up is still to use the '06+ TSX Exhaust cam and the '05-06 RSX-S (same as the K20A ITR cam) Intake cam (and the '06-11 Si or '02-04 RSX-S Intake cam would be a close second). Obviously, when you start mixing and matching components, you drive the price of the swap up significantly... and you DID mention the word "Budget" in your original post. Using Hondata K-Pro with a PND or PNF ECU is still pretty affordable compared to the options mentioned above AND you will still have OBD-2 diagnostic capability with it... Link, AEM and Haltech will not have this ability. For a daily driven vehicle... OBD-2 diagnostic capability is a big deal when you have problems... targeting issues can be done not only by yourself, but also ANY auto parts store or general mechanic shop if the need arises. YOU will need to be a data analyzer if you pick a full stand-alone system. The advantages to the stand-alone systems will be they are fully NEW... you will not be using a 20 year old ECU as the foundation, and they are more powerful and faster than the stock ECU platform, processing incoming data much more efficiently. You decide which is best for you. The guys at Hybrid-Racing are top notch and they work hard to produce products of great quality... I use their stuff whenever I can. I am sure they can provide some version of their "Help/Install Guide" if you reach out to them.

 

Yes I do plan on still having OBD2, for the exact reasons you mentioned, being daily driven having the ease of pinpointing issues that may happen. So it sound like Hondata Kpro is the way to go for tuning and etc. For the ecu, the reflash and programing still has the vehicle immobilizer correct? So I would need either a bypass box or the key and lock cylinder from the ecu's original car right?

 

You can find a running K swapped civic for around $7500 to $8500 if you look around! might be an easier route! sold mine for $8500 no problem.

 

There is no immobilizer found in the Civic that you intend to K-swap... wiring up the necessary components and making a key-switch change would be possible, but it isn't a simple process. The immobilizer in the ECU can be disabled in the K-Pro program, so it is really a non-issue.

It is true that one can find a running, K-swapped EK Civic for LESS than what it will likely cost to do this swap in your own car... so the question is do you want a K-swapped car for the cheapest up front cost OR build the car that YOU want... even though it costs more in the end ?

 

Lots of variables there, may or may not be true depending on how the job is accomplished, if he recoups some of the cost by selling old parts, etc.

The market is also so crazy these days that I'm not sure what he'd find for sale. Wunfastgsr had "no problems" selling his K swapped Civic for $8500 because it was clean and well built, and it's an insane rarity to find Civics in that condition these days.

Anyway, OP has some window shopping to do either way

 

Yea I know my car doesn't have any anti-theft, but I found an ecu with a key and lock cylinder from an 04 tsx. So swapping that over should work correct?
But yes, I want to build this for me. Once I've had my fun, I can sell it. But from what I've seen, (sourcing most things locally) I should be able to have a running car after roughly $2500. Yes I could go buy one, but I'm the type of person who doesn't really trust someone else's swap because there are so many corners that can be cut. I want to make sure everything is done correctly.

 

I don't think that you are grasping the various complexities of a complete "K Swap" from XYZ donor chassis. So, let me make this easy for you. The ONLY complete donor swap which you can use every part on your car is a '02-04 BASE RSX or a '02-05 Civic Si (except the shift cables here). The best performance choice would be the '02-04 RSX-S but the axles are too big for your Civic hub/spindles, so you would have to buy an aftermarket set of axles. In all three cases I have listed, you would still have to deal with an immobilizer issue... either figure out how to wire up the immobilizer ring and affix the key to it OR purchase an immobilizer delete and install it. In addition, you would still need mounts, a radiator and hoses, a throttle cable and a header... and without upgrading the ECU to K-Pro, you will have permanent stored codes related to emissions systems and your MIL (Check Engine Light) will stay on until the bulb burns out.

EVERYTHING ELSE is increasingly more incompatible and requires the replacement of more and more parts so that you can properly install it in your Civic. The DBW ECU's and throttle bodies cannot be used without extensive wiring and customization to integrate a DBW pedal assembly into your Civic chassis. The transmissions from 2005+ will not send a signal to your speedometer that it can read, so a signal converter must be utilized.

You cannot realistically swap all components from an '03-08 Accord, '04-08 TSX, '06-11 Civic Si or '12-15 Civic Si. I have placed these donor options in increasing complexity in trying to use ALL of their parts, and even so, all of the parts I have listed above at the end of the first paragraph will be needed... including axles. In the end, the wiring will be overwhelming and defeating the ABS, VSA and CAN-Bus issues will be daunting.

If you think that you can perform a proper K-Swap with all needed components and you doing the labor for $2,500... you are delusional. It is going to likely take between $8K and $10K and a lot of your time.

 

No let me make it easy for you. I don't take well to people doubting my abilities. You have no idea who the hell I am or what I can do. I came on here to start a conversation to get some ideas on the best way to do certain things, get a list of all of the small items that are easily forgotten, and to get any questions I have answered by people who've done this. I didn't come on here to have someone talk down to me and tell me I don't know what I'm doing or what I'm getting myself into. I know exactly what I'm getting into, like I said I just need some help with the things I haven't messed with before being honda/brand/aftermarket specific. People in the car community should help each other, not talk down to them like a ******* dog. You have no idea that I deal with wiring, HS/MS-CANs, and modules and **** like that on the daily. You also don't know that I have more money in tools than your average tech, and use every single one. Like I said, "locally sourced" which I know it might be hard for someone from Alabama to read the bigger words, but it means the guy a hour from where I live has a engine and trans for sale for cheap. And another guy has this part for sale for cheap. Yes I know this can be a $10k build. But that's not what I'm doing at the moment. I am building a car for me to drive and have fun in. Something I can add onto. I mentioned budget in the beginning because I don't want to dump $7k+ to get a running swapped car right now. That's later. Along with an idea for an awd conversion. So thanks for the help, but **** off.

 

OP just go on YouTube! there is lots of K swaps DYI builds you can watch and figure out what you need, trust me there is tons of really good vids to watch and you will get a very good idea on what you need as they go into detail and list the parts and sources. If I'm not mistaken the 02-06 Type S engine, trans and engine harness is the easiest route to take to get it running, as far as ECU its just best to get a Kpro, its one of the most expensive parts of the swap but its very much necessary for deleting certain things like immobilizer etc. and to get it running good plus you can use the free base maps to get it running fairly well. On my setup I used a K20A with bolt ons base map and it ran great!

 

no one is doubting what you are able to do or not do and he isnt talking down to you. he is just being real with how kswaps go

you have no idea who JRCivic is or what he can do. he isnt some hick from alabama

there is no "budget" kswap and you WILL dump 7k +to get a running kswapped car. thats the reality of it

engines and transmissions are cheap. yes.

its everything else needed that kills it money wise. all that adds up and you need it to get the swap done.
sure you can spend hours scouring the internet to find all the other parts used for cheaper and even then its not that much cheaper than new

for a sleeper build like you want here is what i would do and basic parts list

k24a2
crv block bracket
type s or 06-11 si transmission
k20 intermediate shaft
shifter box and cables
mount kit
swap axles
02-04 rsx engine harness and ecu with kpro installed or 02-05 civic si also get the charge harness with either option
conversion harness
kswap header
kswap radiator
hoses
fuel system
intake

there are probably some misc items i am missing but thats the basic jist of it all
k-tuned and hybrid-racing have pretty much all the peripheral items you will need to get the swap going