91 STD, Major brake issues

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Old Nov 29, 2022 | 04:54 PM
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Default 91 STD, Major brake issues

Been lurking the site for a little bit, decided to go ahead and join
Some backstory, i bought my first ever Honda, A 91 STD with the sole purpose of B swapping it. But if course its an STD trim so i have 2x the work i need to do, so i might just mini-me it, BUT first i have to get the damn thing to stop!

Anyway i bought the car with ALL the brake work MOSTLY done. and i mean everything, booster, MC, ALL LINES (more on this later) drums, disks pad shoes springs EVERYTHING even the fittings are all new.
After i re ran the prop valve because it was connected completely wrong, i found out the MC wasnt getting any "input" from the booster. pulled the MC off again and found the little adjustments screw thing was all the way in. so i turned it out so its JUST before hitting the piston in the MC. i tightened the nut up as much as i can but i dont trust that little bolt staying tight?
Anywho ive attached a pic of how i got the prop valve wired up now, lines are a mess but ay i didn't run them. I STILL cant get fluid to any of the wheels. Ive bench bled the MC twice, Ive tried a vacuum pump at the wheels, ive mashed the pedal hundreds of times, I took one of the bleeders out and mashed the pedal and all i get is maybe a couple drops. Im at a loss. ive been over a month on this and only have time to mess with it on the weekends. Does the prop valve have a line lock? Is the car too old for that? does it have its own bleeding procedure? its got a 2530 in it right now, Which has also been replaced.



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Old Nov 30, 2022 | 07:21 AM
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Default Re: 91 STD, Major brake issues

There should be nothing in the stock braking setup that would be blocking flow. Bleeding order from the USDM service manual is FL, RR, FR, RL.

There is probably enough air in the system at this point that just opening the screw and pushing the pedal will not do much. You will need to either get a friend to help you do a traditional brake bleed, or invest in a pressure bleeder tool like the Motive one.

Traditional bleed will involve having one person in the seat, pumping the brakes and then applying steady pressure. When there is pressure, you open a bleed screw and let the air/fluid bleed out. Ensure you close the bleed screw before they lift their foot off the brake, and repeat until the air is out and fluid is flowing, for each corner. Since there is likely a bit of air in the system, you may need to do each corner multiple times. If you just leave the bleed screw open it will just suck air back in, so the order is important.

If you can't get fluid to any corner while doing a proper bleed, there will be further troubleshooting required.

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Old Nov 30, 2022 | 10:01 AM
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Default Re: 91 STD, Major brake issues

Originally Posted by kraquepype
There should be nothing in the stock braking setup that would be blocking flow. Bleeding order from the USDM service manual is FL, RR, FR, RL.

There is probably enough air in the system at this point that just opening the screw and pushing the pedal will not do much. You will need to either get a friend to help you do a traditional brake bleed, or invest in a pressure bleeder tool like the Motive one.

Traditional bleed will involve having one person in the seat, pumping the brakes and then applying steady pressure. When there is pressure, you open a bleed screw and let the air/fluid bleed out. Ensure you close the bleed screw before they lift their foot off the brake, and repeat until the air is out and fluid is flowing, for each corner. Since there is likely a bit of air in the system, you may need to do each corner multiple times. If you just leave the bleed screw open it will just suck air back in, so the order is important.

If you can't get fluid to any corner while doing a proper bleed, there will be further troubleshooting required.
I've had a buddy with me every time I've tried to bleed it the traditional way and haven't got anywhere. Is my prop valve correct however? I might have shop for a pressure bleeder, I have not tried that
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Old Dec 1, 2022 | 06:45 AM
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Default Re: 91 STD, Major brake issues

According to your picture and the service manual, the prop valve looks to be connected properly. Those lines though look rough though, I see a sharp bend and who knows what the rest of them look like. Also, given that the lines were replaced, there could be rust in the calipers, brake cylinders and soft lines.

When you are attempting to bleed, what does the pedal feel like?
Is the fluid level reducing as the brakes are pressed down?
Have you removed the soft line at the caliper(s) to see if you get fluid?

A pressure bleeder is a nice investment for future brake work, I recommend it. My Motive power bleeder has lasted over a decade and worked on every car I've needed to use it on. The adapters can be sketchy but once its sealed well enough on the MC to hold some pressure it makes light work of any brake bleeding.

It would also make troubleshooting easier as you could pressurize the MC and loosen up lines at the prop valve and calipers to see what flow you have.
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Old Dec 5, 2022 | 04:25 PM
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Default Re: 91 STD, Major brake issues

Originally Posted by kraquepype
According to your picture and the service manual, the prop valve looks to be connected properly. Those lines though look rough though, I see a sharp bend and who knows what the rest of them look like. Also, given that the lines were replaced, there could be rust in the calipers, brake cylinders and soft lines.
Oh yeah there a mess but thats how it was when i got it. i did clean the engine bay up SOME, instead of following the factory routing dude just ran them OVER the engine. I Inspected and haven't found any kinks so i guess its fine for now. Both rear cylinders are new, calipers i think are original, haven't looked further

Originally Posted by kraquepype
When you are attempting to bleed, what does the pedal feel like?
Is the fluid level reducing as the brakes are pressed down?
Have you removed the soft line at the caliper(s) to see if you get fluid?
After i adjusted that bolt thing on the booster i had very little pedal and all kinds of fluid going through after i bled the prop valve. Loads of fluid at all 4 corners now. There's still air somewhere as i have to pump 5-6 times to get a pedal but ive literally ran an entire bottle of fluid though it. Once i start the car all pedal just goes away. it will stop enough that i can move it around my driveway but i would NOT take it any further
Originally Posted by kraquepype
A pressure bleeder is a nice investment for future brake work, I recommend it. My Motive power bleeder has lasted over a decade and worked on every car I've needed to use it on. The adapters can be sketchy but once its sealed well enough on the MC to hold some pressure it makes light work of any brake bleeding.

It would also make troubleshooting easier as you could pressurize the MC and loosen up lines at the prop valve and calipers to see what flow you have.
If i cant get anywhere else myself i do have a good shop ive used before i can tow this pig to.

My current issue is the passenger drum's backing plate seems to be bent just enough that that shoes are binding up and not allowing me to adjust them. Nice. my GUESS is when last owner was putting the coils on it he dropped it on the plate. Can it be bent back or do i have to replace it? i THINK its PN 43110-SK7-013 but would like someone to confirm that
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Old Dec 6, 2022 | 10:42 AM
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Default Re: 91 STD, Major brake issues

Sounds like you are making progress, good to hear. It may take a few bottles of brake fluid to get all the air out. If the fluid is coming out and recovered in a clean container you could always run it through again, if you are looking to save fluid.

I might still have my old backing plates, but they were rust-bound to the spindle pretty good, so they might be a bit rough. You may be able to remove yours and get it back into shape. If you need them let me know.

The part numbers are 43110-SH3-023 (R) and 43120-SH3-023 (L) but show discontinued. (https://www.hondapartsnow.com/parts-...ear_brake.html)
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Old Jan 31, 2023 | 08:33 PM
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Default Re: 91 STD, Major brake issues

Forgot about this thread, but thought i would update.
I Was able to get my backing plate BETTER by beating it with a hammer (lmfao) and it still rubs very slightly on the drum. May be interested in yours if the offer is still up if i cant get mine sorted
Brake issues were fixed once the front calipers were flipped sides. So i now have a running and driving hatch!
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