I was going to have a friend of mine do it for $250, but he's been pretty busy with life. He is a DIY mechanic.
Have been watching Youtube videos and they tell you almost every step of the way. How hard is this job? Is it safe to have someone with an experience do it?

I have a few questions:
1. Say I mess up something. Maybe one tooth off. How bad is it? Is it going to damage the engine? Is the worst case doing it all over again?
2. I want to change seals as well. Do you know if Autozone, Oreilly's or Advanced auto has a cam pulley holder tool for loaning? I could not find one that I could rent. If there isn't one, should I buy a strap wrench?
3. When you are adjusting any pulleys, never ever turn it clockwise?
4. Is there anything I should never do?
5. 5-6 hour job for the first timer, right? That does not sound too, too bad.

I am thinking I do it and then somebody else look at it before I start re-assembling. This way, I have the second set of eyes, and that person can help me correct my mistakes.

 

I've never done an F23, but generally speaking:
1. One tooth off will make your valves and pistons have the most violent lovemaking session you'll ever have the misfortune of hearing. Fortunately there should be plenty of markings on the sprockets to help you align them, and before you start the engine after installing the belts, pull your spark plugs so you're not fighting compression and gently turn the crankshaft. A tooth off will mean the crank will come to a hard stop on the valves. They're stainless steel so don't be afraid to give then a tiny little bump.
2. Don't know about your cam sprocket, but on my F22, I ugga-dugga'd the bolt off then waited until the belts were fully installed. After that I held the crank in place and used the belt tension to hold the sprocket still while I torqued the bolt. It was only 30Ft-lbs or so IIRC so it wasn't much force on the belt compared to 5000rpm anyway.
3. Yes and no. When you get the timing cover off you'll see why. The crank pulls the belt on it's left side down to move the cam in tandem so that side should be taut. The right side has slack in it so when the crank turns clockwise it has to take up that slack and while it does, it(and thus the pistons) is moving independently from the cam/valves and is now out of sync. All you have to do is rotate it back, but you may need to readjust the newly installed belts' tension. Don't sweat it it too bad. You will most likely need to do it a tiny bit once or twice to bring the engine to TDC on piston #1 starting out. Just loosen your plugs and go slow when you hand crank the engine.
4. Buy cheap torque wrenches and blindly accept advice from strangers on the internet.
5. Give yourself a whole day to do it so you can take your time and double check everything. And don't just change the belt and leave, study the timing assembly so you understand why you should or shouldn't be doing certain things. How old is your water pump? Might consider doing it too while you're there.
If my autistic @$$ can change the belts on my car four times without a hitch then I'm sure you can do yours once if you try hard enough.

 

for about $40 you can pick up the factory service manual on eBay. if you follow that step by step you can't go wrong. added benefit of having detailed info for every other part of the car as well.

difficulty..? the crank pulley bolt can be difficult to remove. and if it's a car with a lot of rust and corrosion, that can be a hassle. otherwise this is not a challenging job if you're going by the book (for your first time or two) and have something resembling a mechanics tool set you might buy from Harbor Freight for $150 or so plus a 5-80lb-ft torque wrench.

it is not a small job your first time though. there are a lot of parts coming off that need to go back in a particular order and specific location. it's important not to loose any either unless you have a good self serve salvage yard near by and an extra couple of hours to go get replacements. I would plan for two days with a backup plan for day three just in case. that way you take your time and go step by step.

better tools make it easier, practice makes it take less time. everything you need to know to do it right is in that FSM.

 

Thank you for your reply!
1. That is scary. I think once the position is right, the next is how much tension you allow it on the belts. It seems that if you should be able to only rotate it 90 degrees or 45 degrees?
2. I did not quite understand this. Are you saying you did not use any tool to take the cam pulley off?
3. Hmm...
4. I have a 1/2 drive torque wrench. Never used it. I am thinking now that maybe I should have gotten 3/8 drive one, but it is too late.
5. Water pump is a part of the kit that I bought. Plus I got 3 seals - cam, crank and... balancer? That is why I am wondering how to take the cam pulley off.

 

wow its almost like theres the FAQs that have this exact question in it

 

Thank you! The library nearby has an online manual by Michelle or something. I suppose it is almost the same as factory service manual?
I have bought wrenches and sockets. My two concerns when it comes to tools are:
1. I don't know how to take the cam shaft off. Amazon has holders but it costs $20 for this one time use. If I had to, I would buy one. I did not find Youtube video and this one guy used chain wrench, but no explanation.
2. I got me a loooong pipe, and 20 some inch extension (from my friend) and a breaker bar. But they are for 3/8 wrench, and not for 1/2. Would it break the socket and extension?

I will allocate 2 days for the job. Yes, sir!

 

I did print out the PDF, but did not go through the thread. Now that you mentioned it, I will, and maybe pick up a few other things as well.

Thanks!

 

yea, i will say it does get some getting used to, but if you need info, feel free to DM me with any questions, as ive been digging deep into research for the CE1/CD5 chassis

 

It is too late to start today, but I am about to attack the crankshaft bolt. If I can loosen it, I just put it back and wait for the right time to start the job. Maybe next Saturday.
Why now? I got me adapters for my tiny impact driver "Impact Rated Hex Shank Socket Driver Set" from HF, and want to try it to remove the tire (just for fun.)

If I can take it off, 1/3 of the job is done, right?

Thank you for the DM offer. That is encouraging to me.
---------
Addition: Extension bar broke. Do not use one for 3/8!

 

I've found the fsm to be the ideal resource. However if you're looking for a video step by step. Either bundys garage has a good one or you can purchase the v-manual from ericthecarguy. I get nothing in return for those but i will say the etcg one helped me the best. As for removing a crank pully, you either want an m18 nut buster or a good breaker bar with the appropriate extension mechanisms and the pully holder

 

yea just make sure its either the breakdown kit wrench or whatever fits, but if you dont have a socket kit specifically for lug nuts, you are going to mar them up a bit, for the harmonic balancer you are going to want a special removal tool, just go to your favorite flavor of auto parts store, and pick one on up to rent (and a breaker bar my guy)

as for youtubers i prefer EricTheCarGuy as he has helped me through every CE1 i have owned since i started owning them in 2017, not a lot of CD5 info but at least he gets the gist of it a crossed, but i do highly recommend looking at 1A Auto to see how things like the fender liner and skid plate come out, as you will have to set TDC, which means you'll need to see both pulleys to see how they are currently aligned

 

I have got a 1/2 inch drive extension bar now, after I broke 3/8 extension. Will start Friday night, and attack the crankshaft pulley bolt. Only that. Get up early the next day Saturday morning and start working.

One thing I am not comfortable with is how to take the cam pulley off. Because there is no instruction video on Youtube. There is a special tool for it, but I got a chain wrench from HF ($10), and from what I read, you want an old timing belt or an old drive belt between the chain and the pulley to protect it. Once you take it off, does it go back in only one way? I assume so, and cannot go in at a different angle. Probably there is a notch to align it right?
I would put it TDC and then take it off, and put it back in without moving the pulley, but I don't think it is realistic and really possible. Do I worry about this? I believe all the sprockets and pulleys that have the timing mark only go in at one single, proper angle.

Another thing is that, I have a small impact gun with 1/4 inch shaft. I have an adapter to load socket wrenches there, and theoretically it can go up to 150ft lb. With the adapter, it is going to be less, but is it powerful enough? I guess I can try. When I use this impact gun, I don't need to hold the sprocket with the chain?

 

Do not wrap a chain wrench around the crank pulley, you will only serve to destroy it. Rent the tool, purchase the tool.

https://www.autozone.com/shop-and-ga...ool/420315_0_0 (its 40 bucks and you get that back)

There are tons of youtube videos on how to deal with this. There is plenty of FAQ's in this forum alone for removing the crank and doing timing belts. It doesnt matter if its an F22 or an F23, the basics are all the same. If you are having this much of an issue and the crank pulley is your biggest problem, perhaps it is better to get local professional help rather than seeking the information of well-informed/practiced strangers across the internet.

 

Yes, that is true, except I am after Camshaft sprocket, and not Crankshaft. I rented one from OR. There are multiple Youtube videos, and that is why I decided to do it myself. I just need help on CAMshaft sprocket removal. There seem to be rental tools for Camshaft, but they all have bad reviews, so that is why I got a chain wrench. Is it still a bad idea?
Thanks anyway!

 

When do you take the cam sprocket off to replace the cam seal?
I think, you leave the old timing belt on, set TDC, and remove the bolt and sprocket. Of course at that point, the belt comes off. I hope I am not meesing up the timing by doing this.

 

I haven't tried it yet, but there was a cool trick shown on youtube.

Instead of busting knuckles and hours trying to break the crank pully bolt loose with endless cheater bars and leverage....you can place the handle of your wrench and let it rest against your axle or control arm, then crank the motor over for just a milisecond. The inertia/force of the cranking should break the bolt loose.

 

This may not work for engines that turn counter-clock wise, but what do I know?
I am hoping that 5' pipe will do it tonight. AccordTouring who made the awesome instructional PDF in FAQ had success multiple times, so we will see.

Again, I am after CAM shaft sprocket. What is the best way? I have a tiny impact wrench with an adapter. When I try with an impact gun, you do not need to hold the sprocket? People that have big impact guns attack CRANK by itself. I do not understand the physics.

 

I always get the cam bolt loose before anything else comes off. before the timing belt comes off, before the spark plugs are out. that way the crank holds the cam by the belt and the compression holds the crank. A long double box end wrench is my go to, but I have used a regular combo wrench with a second for added leverage, or a long handle ratchet (a plus if it's a flex head). all you need to do is get it broken loose then take the rest apart.

 

Thank you for your comment!

So you are saying, when you take the upper timing cover off, set TDC, and then the first thing is to just attack the camshaft bolt, and with the existing bolts in place, Cam sprocket will stay in place. Am I correct?
You do not use impact wrench, with belts in place, because you don't have one, or it is a bad idea?
There is a guy on Youtube ( ) that showed how to do the timing belt and seals. He used a chain wrench, and this was his comment (not in the video, but in comment section):

> There isn't a lot of torque involved in holding the pulley from moving while loosening the pulley bolt. Using the timing belt to prevent the cam from moving is not advised. It applies too much force and pressure on component bearings (like the water pump and pulleys).

In the video, timing belt was damaged, so he used a chain wrench, but I have been wondering why he did not use his impact wrench. Maybe, the resistance on the sprocket would not be enough without a belt...

 

my guy for the harmonic balancer you need , a literal tool for it that works pretty well (ive had to use this in the past) a impact is best for not having the tool i linked, a dude in a local accord group came by in a 15/ft/lbs or heavier impact and just pulled the trigger, boom, it was off, and i hope this helps as much as last time

dont forget EricTheCarGuy either lol, Eric is a good guy

 

Thank you. I got the harmonic balancer bolt off. I got the holder from auto shop, and 5 foot pipe did the trick. There is no way 3/8 inch extension would have survived (it died on me) for the amount of torque that it required.

Now I got the top timing cover off. It is impossible to correctly set it TDC on the camshaft from the side. So I looked from the engine side, and used the squire marks for alignment. What is puzzling me now is that when I look at 1&3 notches on the harmonic balancer pulley, it is off, by about 4mm. It is not perfectly aligned. Very surprised. What am I supposed to do? Can I ignore it and move on? This is the first timing belt replacement, so Honda factory (in Japan!) did it. Yes this was assembled in Japan.

I think the next step is that take the cam sprocket off and replace the cam seal. Set the cam to be TDC again, and take the belt off. Am I on the right track?

 

how many miles does the engine have? TDC to me atleast seems something that needs to be where it was set previous, which is why you TDC before anything if you are doing something like this, because once you are at TDC you wouldnt need to change it, but for alligning the marks i personally would, and if you later have issues when starting it, then you can advance/retard the timing if needed for fine tuning, though if you do TDC right you wont have to mess with timing again

 

Thanks for your comment, but I did not quite understand what you were saying. I have not taken timing belts off. TDC at the camshaft, but at the same time TDC at crankshaft is off. When I put new belts, should I correct it, or no (meaning leaving it deliverately off at the current position)?

The car has about 120K.

Sorry, this picture is upside down,

 

i would fix it, and then if you have issues, you would have to make sure your valves have correct lashing/head rebuild

 

Should be the same on all honda motors.


Pretty simple ideology. Instead of brute force, you're leveraging the torque of the motor itself as well as the strength of the steel suspension components to break it loose.