HG replaced, still white smoke, re-torque?
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HG replaced, still white smoke, re-torque?
I recently purchased a 94' Honda Civic HB that had its stock engine replaced with D16Y8 (less than 150k miles) and the ECU is a P28 that is not chipped.
This is a project car that I knew would need some engine work due to minor oil leaks and white smoke coming from engine exhaust (HG had a leak or blown). Last night, I replaced the head gasket but reused the stock bolts. oops. The old gasket had sand-like material all over it but i didn't see any sign of it being blown. Im guessing that was the Blue Devil gasket sealant I used to hold me off until I got time to replace the HG. The Blue Devil sealant removed the white smoke but I wanted to replace the HG anyways just to be sure. The head isn't warped - I used a torque wrench in correct order as list and the last two runs at 49 ft-lbs. (The specs for this engine list 49 ft-lbs but i'm guessing thats with new bolts).
The car started fine but after about 2 minutes of idling it started back with the white smoke from the exhaust and even more than before. I let it idle for about 30 minutes and even drove it about 5 miles afterward but the white smoke is still there so I know its not just left over coolant burning off. Also, the valve cover has a little white smoke coming from the vent air breather.
I wasn't aware I should use new bolts so i'm guessing...the reused bolts are not tight enough and thats causing a coolant leak into the chamber. Its ambiguous but all the Youtube videos I watched on how to do this... didn't mention to use new bolts.
Other forums say its fine to re-torque the stock bolts from their current position as long as I do not reverse them. Some forums say to turn an additional 90-180 degree from the 49 ft-lbs if I reuse the same bolts. Should I re-torque the stock bolts or start over with a new HG and ARP's? What should I aim for on the torque wrench if I do re-torque them?
This is a project car that I knew would need some engine work due to minor oil leaks and white smoke coming from engine exhaust (HG had a leak or blown). Last night, I replaced the head gasket but reused the stock bolts. oops. The old gasket had sand-like material all over it but i didn't see any sign of it being blown. Im guessing that was the Blue Devil gasket sealant I used to hold me off until I got time to replace the HG. The Blue Devil sealant removed the white smoke but I wanted to replace the HG anyways just to be sure. The head isn't warped - I used a torque wrench in correct order as list and the last two runs at 49 ft-lbs. (The specs for this engine list 49 ft-lbs but i'm guessing thats with new bolts).
The car started fine but after about 2 minutes of idling it started back with the white smoke from the exhaust and even more than before. I let it idle for about 30 minutes and even drove it about 5 miles afterward but the white smoke is still there so I know its not just left over coolant burning off. Also, the valve cover has a little white smoke coming from the vent air breather.
I wasn't aware I should use new bolts so i'm guessing...the reused bolts are not tight enough and thats causing a coolant leak into the chamber. Its ambiguous but all the Youtube videos I watched on how to do this... didn't mention to use new bolts.
Other forums say its fine to re-torque the stock bolts from their current position as long as I do not reverse them. Some forums say to turn an additional 90-180 degree from the 49 ft-lbs if I reuse the same bolts. Should I re-torque the stock bolts or start over with a new HG and ARP's? What should I aim for on the torque wrench if I do re-torque them?
Hysterically Calm
Joined: Jan 2013
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Re: HG replaced, still white smoke, re-torque?
Please provide the details on how you know the head is flat. Have you confirmed the block is flat?
How old is your torque wrench? When was the last time you had it calibrated? Did it come with a certificate of calibration?
Honda Head Bolts are not torque to yield (stretch) bolts so they can be reused. Also you can back them off and re-torque. However, only if you have not heat cycled the head gasket which you have so now you have to start over with a new gasket IF you have to back off any of the bolts. If any of the bolts screeched on your final step it should have been backed out, re-oiled and put back in to the final step of torque.
My personal method is to 3 step the torques in the proper torquing sequence. I do 23 ft-lbs, 35 ft-lbs then 47 ft-lbs (I'm doing the D15B7 and D16Z6 typically). I tend to get the screech on a few bolts during the third step. I don't mind backing out that bolt to re-oil being that all the bolts before it are at 47 ft-lbs successfully and all the bolts after it are at 35 ft-lbs successfully. There is very little chance of warping etc if I am only messing with the one bolt until it hits the max torque smoothly.
Please provide a bit more details on how you confirmed flatness. Claiming it's flat doesn't mean it is.
Oh and one last thing, it's best to let the head gasket job sit 12-24 hours after install before adding fluids and putting the motor back to use.
How old is your torque wrench? When was the last time you had it calibrated? Did it come with a certificate of calibration?
Honda Head Bolts are not torque to yield (stretch) bolts so they can be reused. Also you can back them off and re-torque. However, only if you have not heat cycled the head gasket which you have so now you have to start over with a new gasket IF you have to back off any of the bolts. If any of the bolts screeched on your final step it should have been backed out, re-oiled and put back in to the final step of torque.
My personal method is to 3 step the torques in the proper torquing sequence. I do 23 ft-lbs, 35 ft-lbs then 47 ft-lbs (I'm doing the D15B7 and D16Z6 typically). I tend to get the screech on a few bolts during the third step. I don't mind backing out that bolt to re-oil being that all the bolts before it are at 47 ft-lbs successfully and all the bolts after it are at 35 ft-lbs successfully. There is very little chance of warping etc if I am only messing with the one bolt until it hits the max torque smoothly.
Please provide a bit more details on how you confirmed flatness. Claiming it's flat doesn't mean it is.
Oh and one last thing, it's best to let the head gasket job sit 12-24 hours after install before adding fluids and putting the motor back to use.
Honda-Tech Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,900
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From: Plano, Texas, USA
Re: HG replaced, still white smoke, re-torque?
The only way to pop a d series head gasket is to over heat the engine. They don't just go out on their own one day
Because the head and the block are aluminum they need to be checked, especially the head, and especially since the last gasket didnt look bad.
So I also agree that your cylinder head is probably warped. You will need to have a machine shop deck the head to make sure it's level
Because the head and the block are aluminum they need to be checked, especially the head, and especially since the last gasket didnt look bad.
So I also agree that your cylinder head is probably warped. You will need to have a machine shop deck the head to make sure it's level
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Trial User
Joined: Jan 2021
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Re: HG replaced, still white smoke, re-torque?
Please provide the details on how you know the head is flat. Have you confirmed the block is flat?
How old is your torque wrench? When was the last time you had it calibrated? Did it come with a certificate of calibration?
Honda Head Bolts are not torque to yield (stretch) bolts so they can be reused. Also you can back them off and re-torque. However, only if you have not heat cycled the head gasket which you have so now you have to start over with a new gasket IF you have to back off any of the bolts. If any of the bolts screeched on your final step it should have been backed out, re-oiled and put back in to the final step of torque.
My personal method is to 3 step the torques in the proper torquing sequence. I do 23 ft-lbs, 35 ft-lbs then 47 ft-lbs (I'm doing the D15B7 and D16Z6 typically). I tend to get the screech on a few bolts during the third step. I don't mind backing out that bolt to re-oil being that all the bolts before it are at 47 ft-lbs successfully and all the bolts after it are at 35 ft-lbs successfully. There is very little chance of warping etc if I am only messing with the one bolt until it hits the max torque smoothly.
Please provide a bit more details on how you confirmed flatness. Claiming it's flat doesn't mean it is.
Oh and one last thing, it's best to let the head gasket job sit 12-24 hours after install before adding fluids and putting the motor back to use.
How old is your torque wrench? When was the last time you had it calibrated? Did it come with a certificate of calibration?
Honda Head Bolts are not torque to yield (stretch) bolts so they can be reused. Also you can back them off and re-torque. However, only if you have not heat cycled the head gasket which you have so now you have to start over with a new gasket IF you have to back off any of the bolts. If any of the bolts screeched on your final step it should have been backed out, re-oiled and put back in to the final step of torque.
My personal method is to 3 step the torques in the proper torquing sequence. I do 23 ft-lbs, 35 ft-lbs then 47 ft-lbs (I'm doing the D15B7 and D16Z6 typically). I tend to get the screech on a few bolts during the third step. I don't mind backing out that bolt to re-oil being that all the bolts before it are at 47 ft-lbs successfully and all the bolts after it are at 35 ft-lbs successfully. There is very little chance of warping etc if I am only messing with the one bolt until it hits the max torque smoothly.
Please provide a bit more details on how you confirmed flatness. Claiming it's flat doesn't mean it is.
Oh and one last thing, it's best to let the head gasket job sit 12-24 hours after install before adding fluids and putting the motor back to use.
The torque wrench is brand new but its a beam torque wrench in which i was told they are best to use.
I also didn't wait 24-48 hours afterwards. I feel stupid but i learned from this to say the least. Glad i joined this forum. Thanks guys.
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shm91
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Feb 26, 2014 07:31 PM