Ok...long story short. I've called the police and NICB both of which told me they can't help me. I'm concerned I might have a stolen engine. The seller was PISSED beyond measure when I asked for a receipt and a VIN number. Instead, they sent my friend a blocked out picture of "a VIN". After working on the engine and looking endlessly for some type of serial number I noticed they cut the VIN tag off. I already have the engine but have not put it in my 2008 Honda Civic. I originally just wanted a freakin VIN number to know more about the car it came from but now I'm more worried about how they got it. This is all the info I have.

Please help me out guys. Thanks

PS, I didn't buy directly from the "seller", I went through a mechanic friend of mine who is now scared shitless because they yelled the crap outta him when I asked for a receipt so I don't know what's going on or who these folks are BUT they sell good engines, all without VINs and I'm sure it's a much larger operation than just this one IF it's a stolen one.


Cut VIN tag...this was what raised all the flags for me. I didn't see this when I first bought it until I started to work on it.

BA0122

A "stock" number: 0001930726 ENG - 80918 BA0122

The bullshit VIN they texted me.

R18A1 -I know this is the engine type. 3525794 I think it's a 4 at the end or it could be a 1

D7C111524Y

Located on the Flywheel: 12070721

Another number stamped on the FlyWheel: 071022 S-0285 0517 1/0 8/7? 07

Located on the Plastic Valve Cover: 3400721442 I think that might be a part number but I'm not certain.

Located on top of the FlyWheel: 71031...these are stamped in but very hard to read even in person.

 

There is no reason to remove a vin for any reason. It is illegal. In my state it was a misdemeanor for unknowingly doing it , and a felony for knowingly. There is absolutely no reason to remove that vin tag. In my state you are also in possession of stolen property with that .

 

I am not sure what state you live in, but in many states, salvage yards are required to remove the VIN tags on engines/transmissions to protect the rights and privacy of the previous owners. Tracking can still be done with a "partial" VIN number as in the photo the OP has provided above... even though the OP has referred to this as a "bullshit VIN".

OP, you are worrying WAY too much concerning the viability of this engine... it came from a salvage yard. If you are truly concerned about the possibility of being in possession of a stolen engine, simply call your local Police Department and give an investigator the partial VIN number that you have and have them check it against the stolen vehicle list. The lack of the last six digits changes nothing.

 

I did call the police...they were very uninterested in anything I had to say.

Thank you for your comment though, maybe I am worrying about it too much. I just thought it weird when the sellers yelled at my friend.

 

Are you able to site a source? A quick google search brings up many laws about it being illegal and lists many states statues. Also vin#s are not going to provide any public search for a previous owner.
https://www.shouselaw.com/ca/blog/la...-a-vin-number/

 

Well **** ☹️

 

Sure... with respect to Federal Law... the source YOU provided. The spirit of the law that you posted refers to a VIN number found on a VEHICLE/CAR chassis and NOT the sub-components of said vehicle... and even though there is one sentence that states a host of examples where a VIN plate may exist (which includes the engine block, but NOT the transmission... so does this mean that it is OK to remove the VIN plate from a used transmission ?), there are also conflicting statements in a sentence above with respect to vehicle destruction by salvage yards or vehicle repairs.

So here is some context: I submit to you that swapping out the engine in your car with another one REQUIRES the removal of the VIN plate because it will no longer match the VIN plates on the vehicle chassis. To meet the letter of the law, one would also remove the VIN plate of your original engine and MOVE it over to the replacement engine so that the VIN plates now match throughout the vehicle.

If your engine VIN plate is not found on the FRONT of the engine as stated in your link, is it OK to remove it ? Many Honda/Acura blocks have the VIN plate on the back.

State laws can be more stringent... especially in California which has the most draconian automotive related laws/rules in the Nation.

Now, to bring this back around to the OP's current situation... even in California, possessing an engine block without a VIN is not a crime UNLESS the OP KNEW that the salvage yard in which the engine was purchased from acquired it illegally.

 

Come on JR it lists California statute. California Vehicle Code 10802 VC is more serious. It makes it illegal to intentionally tamper with a VIN in order to:

• misrepresent or hide the identity of the vehicle or car part,
• for the purpose of selling or transferring it.4

VC 10802 is a “wobbler” in California. It can be charged as either a felony or a misdemeanor.

If charged as a misdemeanor, a conviction carries:

• up to a year in jail, and
• a fine of up to $1,000.

If charged as a felony, penalties are higher:

• 16 months, 2 years, or 3 years in jail, and
• A maximum of $25,000 in fines

So now you are saying you have to swap vins on the engine block? I sited a legitimate source why it’s illegal. You stated some states require this and can’t site a source. This is about the op’s engine and concern its stolen. Would you buy a gun , or a car with the serial number removed? Where I come places that sell parts with serial numbers removed are called chop shops not salvage yards. The purpose of the vins are to provide proof that the parts are not from a stolen vehicle.

 

This reference supports the illegality of vin defacing/removal on state level.

It gives the impression MOST states have some sort of legislation in place making it illegal.

VIN tampering

Then this reference of the US Code indicates what JRCivic1 mentioning is also true. Paragraph 2 allows a salvage to remove VIN tags as long as they are fully aware the vehicle is not stolen.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/511

 

I would never buy a car or a gun without a serial number on it... but I would have absolutely no issue with buying an engine from a well established salvage yard if it was missing a VIN tag... but this is not really a fair comparison. Cars and Guns REQUIRE a VIN/Serial number in order to register/transfer them. An engine does not have to be registered when it moves from one car to another... or one owner to another.

Here is another tid bit to consider: If you were to purchase a BRAND NEW Honda short block or transmission, it does NOT come with a VIN tag on it. These products are manufactured without them.So, does this mean that your local Honda Dealership is a "Chop Shop" ? As a practice by the way, they do not transfer your engine VIN plate to the new short block unless you specifically request it to be done, and this may incur an extra charge.

Now if we use this example within the draconian state of California... does this process cause problems during visual inspection ? If you use an example like an S2000... could you replace the short block with a brand new VIN-less one and transfer the original cylinder head (which has a VIN plate as well) and still meet/pass California BAR/visual inspection ? My suspicion is that it will pass.

 

The purpose of the clause that a salvage yard can destroy a vin is for crushing the vehicle and or parts with the vin . I am waiting for a state ars code that vins need to be removed still other than jr said so still......I would love to see your interpretation of the law stand up in court. The dealer replacement is also laughable. Honda marks it’s replacement engines with a R-DOT stamp . It stands for Replacement department of transportation. They also label hoods , fenders , bumpers , etc. with a R-DOT label. This is also part of the federal process. It doesn’t apply to just Honda either.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/...l6-part541.xml

If you keep looking on google there is a great article archive on Ferrari asking the nhtsa for advice on refurbished engines and they are advised they can not remove the vins . So Ferrari can’t do it but Jr knows of a random state that its required So again. I sited legit sources. I see bad interpretations of the law with no state sources a vin needs to be removed. I am waiting for this state law they need to be removed still .

You keep stating California which has no law any vin needs to match on a car especially the engine. My brother purchased a theft recovery gsr. The dash was stolen. He had a dash with receipt. He presented the receipt and was told he still failed. The dot police had to remove the vin . They didn’t put another one on and told him you are going to get problems every time you get pulled over with it missing .

I am waiting for a state law that overrides federal law . Please present one . I really want to see this .

 

(B)
a person who repairs such vehicle or part, if the removal, obliteration, tampering, or alteration is reasonably necessary for the repair;

(C)
a person who restores or replaces an identification number for such vehicle or part in accordance with applicable State law;

Not necessary to repair , I want to see this state law .

Convince , me please!

 

State Law is going to vary from state to state. Only federal law is consistent over all states.

i.e. Texas, shoot a person trespassing your land and it's totally legal. Oregon, you are not allowed to use any more force on someone who has broken into your land/home than they have, so they have a knife, you can legally use a knife, not a gun.

Every state has it's own laws and you have to get to know them. They will not be exactly the same as another state you learn about unless it's a federal law.

 

He can't because there isn't one.

The only documented case of LEGAL VIN removal and replacement was when Ford contacted the FBI and changed the vin of 90 1969 Mustang GT500s to be represented as 1970.

 

Kind of a moot point now. You own it. Install and forget. If you are really heart broken about it, (the police certainly are not) toss that block in the trash and find another with a complete VIN tag.

Silly thing to get your panties in a bunch over. The R18 is such a highly sought after engine, they must all be stolen. They only made 50 million of those turds.