Hi all,

I am close to putting my B18C1 back together in preparation to take the car off non-op and get it smogged, but immediately after I will be purchasing cams and obviously I would need a way of tuning the car in order to get the best out of it in terms of performance and reliability. Admittedly, tuning is something I've overlooked due to the fact there's so much to read up on and so much to pay attention to, but I think I have a slight grasp on the basics. Before I bring up my question, here's what my mild build plan is looking like:

- CT Engineering (Comptech) Icebox and filter
- GSR Intake Arm and GSR Intake Manifold
- RC 310cc Injectors, SARD FPR, Walbro 255lph fuel pump
- GSR head; Supertech Dual Valve Springs + Steel Retainers
- Buddy Club Adjustable Cam Gears
- Buddy Club Spec III+ Cams
- Stock GSR block, OEM headgasket
- DC Sports 4-2-1 header, stock cat, Buddy Club Pro Spec Catback

Anyways, my main concern is deciding between Hondata S300 and buying a used A'PEXi VAFC-II. I'm fully aware of the fact that Hondata is vastly superior to the VAFC-II in every way, especially in the sense of adjusting ignition/fuel timing. However, there are some complications I've come across with going the Hondata route, like the inability to install Hondata on OBD2 ECUs. I'm aware that Hondata fabricates their own P28 style OBD2A/B ECUs, but since I'm sticking with the stock GSR manifold I would like to maintain the function of the secondary intake runners by keeping my P72 ECU instead of switching to a P28. There is also the issue of having to find an OBD1 P72/P28 for Hondata. Because of this, I am currently leaning towards just buying a used A'PEXi VAFC-II because: 1) It's cheaper, 2) It works on OBD2, and 3) It *has* been used effectively and with decent results, but just isn't as good as Hondata. Like I mentioned before, my only problem with VAFC-II is how much it sucks compared to Hondata when it comes to the ignition/fuel timing, but then again this will just be a daily driver. Thoughts? Opinions? I'd greatly appreciate any feedback or criticism because anything helps!

 

You are contradicting your self!

Why would you want the Hondata on a OBD2 ECU to begin with? Stick with a OBD1 ECU for the Hondata,

You can wire up a relay to activate the IAB check here,

https://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4255

But if you have just basic mods and it is a daily driver just stick with stock ECU you don't need the VAFC at all! The hondata will be over kill for a stock engine with light bolt ons. Plus finding a tuner that will be willing to "Tune" your engine using that piggy back VAFC will be hard most tuners will recommend a quality EMS. You will be absolutely fine with a stock ECU they can handle basic mods just fine.

If you want more power and stay safe then upgrade to a Type R style intake manifold and use a Hondata S300 and get it tuned by a professional.

 

No, they are not fabricate" P28-style OBD2-ecu", it is OBD1 P28-ecu with adapter circuit and OBD2B connector.

I would go with S300 or Demon II in street car. Piggy bags were way to go in 90's and early 2000, time before modified ecu's with real time tuning and map editing. Now those are ancient memories. Con's, all modifing is manipulating, not real editing.

 

Thanks for your input! I'm sure that link will come in handy in the future. I was hoping I could manage to get my car tuned with having to shell out the extra cash for a new ECU on top of Hondata, especially for my lack of extreme mods, but it is what it is. On the topic of mods, are mine really *that* basic? Obviously it's pretty simple considering I haven't bumped up the CR or anything like that, but would something like "stage 1" type cams be enough to warrant some form of tuning? I know I could get by on a stock ECU with basic I/H/E, but I would imagine that having Buddy Club Spec III+s would require something beyond the stock P72 GSR ECU...

 

Ah, I must have misinterpreted what I've read online. If that's the case, I may just end up shooting for a Hondata ECU and buy S300 along with it. Admittedly, I kinda liked the idea of having a cheaper VAFC module fully visible somewhere in the car just for a fun factor, but since all it does is alter the signal going to the ECU instead of actual editing then I'll just suck it up and save for Hondata.

 

Yea your changing the camshafts so in order to take advantage of them you need to do dial them in on the dyno and tune the ECU.

Using the Hondata S300 V3 with Bluetooth you can mount your phone on your dash and have the Hondata live showing your gauges ect. and that's just as much as a cool factor and more because it has troubleshooting features. And if you hook up the USB cable to a lap top you can have the Hondata display showing live data and also you can data log as you drive. Cant do that with a VAFC. Check my vid to see what im talking about notice my laptop on my passenger seat when I get in.



What you can do is get your self a Hondata S300, I recommend to purchase it from http://www.phearable.net/. Ask them to create a base map using the mods you list. This Base map will be a great start for you to begin with, you should have no real issue getting on it and revving it out. They will provide a good safe map to drive on, I have been on my base map for my built Supercharged setup for like 2 years until I did some bigger mods and decided to clean up the fuel maps but it drove great in boost. You will probably wont feel the need to even have it tuned further like me. And when your ready take it to the dyno and see what it makes then have the tuner adjust the tune further and compare the charts if you feel like.

The VAFC looks cool in all mounted on the dash and since we are talking about this piggy back I will take you back about 11 years when I had a 1999 GSR and I want to say had about the same mods as you including Buddy club spec 3 plus cams. I had a shop tune the engine on the VAFC and it made 198 WHP on a Mustang dyno and on the last PULL IT LEANED OUT AND BLEW A VALVE!. I couldn't really blame the tuner as I sighed the waver form before he tuned it so I couldn't hold him responsible but it was a combination of a bad tuner and a shitty EMS to tune the engine with. I went with a Hondata S100 for the longest time and just recently 3 years or so upgraded the entire ECU to a S300 V3 from Pheriable and I was on the base map for a long time and about 6 months ago was re tuned on the dyno.

You can even purchase the ECU setup and down load a base map from the Hondata vault they have dozens and dozens of setups you can match up too and use that base map and tune to drive on, they have lots of All motor setups. No need to have it tuned till your ready.

 

Back in the day I ran a VAFC on a mild build, but I ended up going with the S100 after a bunch of problems. Was night and day better.

You can just buy a OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness for like 50 bucks and plug in an OBD1 ECU, there's not much to it. No real reason to stay OBD2, an aftermarket manifold is a good idea anyway, **** butterflies.

Also, I made 236 to the wheels with BC 3+ cams, I'd hardly call those mild lol. They just need good supporting mods.

 

Yeah at this point I'm just going to get a chipped ECU from Phearable with conversion harness as recommended by wunfstgsr, and maybe even get S300 in the future if I ever wanted to go that route. And would an aftermarket manifold like the Skunk2 really be that much better for my setup? Personally I don't even like the GSR manifold because it's heavy and a bitch to take off and put back on, but at the same time I like how it's designed with low/mid range power in mind as opposed to the Skunk2 manifold. And I'm curious: what did you have on your setup to hit 236?

 

B20vtec @ 12.5:1

Ported GSR head

Buddy Club III+

old school skunk IM

DC sports 2.5" race header

3" exhaust

tuned on crome


If you're looking for a cheap IM that makes power I've always liked the AEBS typhoon for GSR heads.

Intake manifold is chosen based on power output and powerband, ie short runners vs long, plenum size, etc. For your build I'd stay away from the skunk ultra stuff.

 

Good discussion. Def good food for thought.

 

The two vafc's I had back in the day would randomly lose their settings and you would have to re-enter everything, really annoying at inopportune times. Hondata or a full standalone.