Hi Honda fam,

Can anyone provide assistance? My car has 287K miles. It's a stick shift.

I never failed smog before until now with this car. Been happy with it. I live in OC California.

My smog results:
15 MPH
%CO2 MEAS: 14.6
%O2 MEAS: 0.3
HC:
MAX - 68
AVE - 32
MEAS - 75 (FAIL)
CO:
MAX - 0.41
AVE - 0.07
MEAS - 0.53 (FAIL)
NO:
MAX - 731
AVE - 240
MEAS - 62 (PASS)

25 MPH
%CO2 - 14.5
%O2 - 0.4
HC:
MAX - 44
AVE - 21
MEAS - 44 (BARELY PASSED)
CO:
MAX - 0.41
AVE - 0.06
MEAS - 0.56 (FAIL)
NO:
MAX - 798
AVE - 220
MEAS - 44 (PASS)

- I haven't changed spark plugs yet, but I will before I do the re-test.
- I already changed oil and air filter before the first test. I have no leaks of any kind.
- I drove 30 miles on freeway before test. I let the car run idle before smog guy took over.
- Check engine light never turned on.
- Ignition coil is brand new.
- I cannot get codes because I don't have a scanner.
- Car is all stock. No mods.
- No EGR on this car.
- Passed all visual and functional tests.

I know I have raw fuel emitting from my exhaust which I think is from misfires coming from bad spark plugs. Using Seafoam, Quaranteed to Pass, IsoHeet are gimmicks to me. That doesn't prevent raw fuel from going through my exhaust.

Why do I have super low NO numbers? Does that indicate that I still have a good cat? Can someone explain?

 

You may have a small exhaust leak near the O2 sensor.

Do a full ignition system tune up.

You don't need a scanner to pull codes. Just jump the service connector.

Low NO is an expected consequence of running rich.

 

Give it a full tune up, it sounds like you haven't really done much. And its not a waste of money.

 

Thanks for responding, guys,

Will do. 4 more questions:

- A possible exhaust leak near O2 sensor is a separate thing. The tune up is eliminating possibilities before I get to a possible leak, correct?

- How do I confirm the leak? visual inspection?

- Is there a difference between a regular tune up and full ignition tune up or is it the same thing?

- What's the estimated cost for a tune up? I already changed oil and air filter. That should reduce the price.

 

No. Inspect header for cracks. Consider replacing gaskets.

Full ignition system tune up --> Plugs, wires, distributor cap and rotor, ignition timing

Beyond ignition system - fix CEL codes; replace fuel and air filter, replace engine oil and transmission fluid

Ignition system tune up - Buy Honda parts online (wires, distributor cap and rotor) and NGK plugs locally. You can look up prices.

You also need a timing gun to set ignition timing.

 

I don't know how to do any of that. I have to go to a mechanic. Before I do that, this is what is already done on the car before the first smog test:
- Gasket was replaced 2 years ago.
- I have a new distributor installed in 2019.
- Oil changed. New oil filter.
- Air filter is new.

It sounds like it comes down to:
- spark plugs and spark plug wires
- re-adjust timing
- looking for crack headers
- holes on exhaust
- Possibly changing timing belt. Not sure since I'm re-adjusting timing anyway.

I'm not sure. Does that sound right? I don't know the range for a mechanic to fix those.

 

Keep in mind that aftermarket distributors suck.

 

Most of what I listed is not difficult, if you have access basic tools.

 

I don't have money to get another distributor. An OEM one? I can't. I wouldn't know how to install it.

It doesn't sound like I need a full tune up. Because the other small stuff is done. I just need parts and bits of the tune up:

- Spark plugs and wires
- timing
- check for cracks/leaks on exhaust

Then re-test. I gotta keep it simple. The cat is the most dangerous one. I'm screwed if I have to replace that. So expensive. Thanks, Mueller. I will report back.

 

Okay, I did my talk with various mechanics. A dude tried to get me for $1000+.

Here are my options:

1 - My car is too old. Take the car to a smog check place who will cheat the system for $150-$200 to pass. However, I didn't fix anything. Bad karma. Car probs just gonna get worse. How do they really cheat it? How are they doing it?

OR

2 - This 65 year old man will fix my problems, and the cat, for $350. He said he guarantee passing at ANY Star Certified smog.
He knows about the spark plugs stuff, tune up, leaks, and all of that. I had to verify a 2nd time. His answer is the same: $350. Guarantee pass at any smog place. As long as I drive the car for a week before re-test.
He read my smog fail results. He asked, "Does your engine check light come on?"
"No"
He says, "Then you will definitely pass."

I think I'm going with the Old Man to fix my problems. He was brutally honest. He said that I don't know how long I have been driving with the misfires. Yes, he's right. I really don't know. He also said that cats are built to last forever. The only reason it gets destroyed is driving around with misfires for a long time. Cat took in too much crap and it gave up, which you guys here already knew.

What is The Old Man REALLY doing to my car to be so cocky about passing smog? Unclogging something? He'll fix it in half a day.

 

Beware. You're desperate, and the mechanic wants your money. It's a recipe for disaster.

It's possible that the cat is dead, but don't replace it until the misfire problem has been solved. Be patient.

Does the CEL work? If the bulb is burned out or has been removed, informative CEL codes may be stored in the ECU without you knowing it.

 

CEL definitely works. It came on when my distributor failed and I was stuck in the streets. That was in 2019. I'm gonna go in for my free diagnosis check with another mechanic who offered it to confirm the misfire.

 

Turn the key to ON(II) without starting the engine. Does the CEL turn on for 2 seconds and then turn off? If so, jump the service connector. Do any codes blink from the CEL.

After the "diagnosis", expect a hard sell on having you agree to letting the mechanic do the repairs. Resist at least temporarily. Post the mechanic's diagnosis and the cost estimate.

Do you have any tools or have access to any tools?

 

Will do and I'm ready to say "no" to the hard sell. I just wanna watch what they do. Because I don't know. I have tools. I just don't have the space to do any car repairs. I don't know how to jump connectors either.

 

First check whether the CEL still works. If it does, do this:

Remove the passenger side kick panel where the ECU is housed.

The 2-pin service connector is located above the ECU.

Short the 2 connector pins with a paperclip.

Turn key to ON(II).

If codes are stored in the ECU, the CEL will blink.

If no codes are stored in the ECU, the CEL will remain on steady.

Questions -- Does the clock work and hold time? Does the radio store saved radio stations?

 

CEL works after 2 seconds. Then it turns off. Clock works and holds time just fine. I removed my stock radio back in 2003 for Sony aftermarket radio. Been driving in silence since 2009.
I haven't shorted the ECU out yet though. Am I looking for trouble codes stored on ECU? What are we trying to determine?

Is it to disable ECM ignition timing so I can manually set ignition timing with a timing light?

 

Yes. CEL codes are useful diagnostic tools.

When the clock does not keep time and radio stations are not stored, it is a sign that the hood BackUp fuse is blown. If this fuse is blown, the ECU cannot store CEL codes. However, your fuse seems to be fine.

Yes, it also serves this^ separate purpose.

 

Tried jumping connections on ECU. My paper clip is fine. No residue on it. It's new paper clip.

- CEL is not flashing/blinking at all. It just comes on as usual and turns off after 2 seconds. No blinking/flashing.

Am I doing something wrong?

 

Post a pic of the service connector and its wires.

 

Here is the video:
Only 1 mechanic was helpful with the 10 I spoke with. Horrible. 9 of those guys say "replace cat and valve adjustments." The 1 mechanic said that I could be replacing a perfectly good cat, when it's probably not the real problem. LOL.

Do I have faulty connectors?

At this point, I wanna test my cat with a temp gun. I'm definitely misfiring though.

What do you suggest?

 

The cluster CEL does not work properly. With service connector jumped, the CEL should remain on steady if no codes are thrown.

Without service connector jumped, does the CEL turn on? This was not shown in your video.

 

Yes. CEL works fine.

I don't know what to do next. Mechanics don't have OBD 1 scanners anymore. The 1 guy who has one didn't want to lend it to me.

 

The fact that the CEL works normally without the service connector jumped but does not stay on steady with the service connector jumped suggests that the ECU is bad.

Swap in a known good ECU (P06) that matches your transmission (auto vs manual), and then go from there.

 

- I was suspecting that. Where do I go to do that? Junk yard?

- Does it have to be a 1995 model? can it be 1992,1993,1994?

- Is it possible to pass smog check with a bad ECU?

- Here's a sample listing: (ECU) RH front kick pnl), 1500, DX & LX, MT 37820P06A02
What does the "1500" mean?

- Can I take it from a Del Sol?

- How would I remove one from my car?

- How do I reprogram one for California emissions?

Sorry for the many questions.

 

Learning to do this yourself is great. muellersfan is a great advisor. But if the old guy will get behind his $350 fix by agreeing to be paid only upon your passing SMOG at a site of your choice, why not take the deal? Learn what he fixed and continue learning how to fix your car. BTW, CATs can become inefficient when contaminated, and they can be cleaned in an mild acid bath for under $50. I did it and went from displaying the code for a failed CAT to passing Cali smog with my best numbers in years just a couple weeks later. In other words, you don't always need a new CAT when your CAT becomes inefficient.