So I have completed the swap of a motor between a 2000 and 2001 Accord (4cyl) but I am having issues getting her to run right.

I have an 1167 I think which is the heater relay for the 02? And I’m not sure that it’s even reading correctly because I tried swapping the relay, and the 02, and the fuses are good but the code persists. My buddy said that code would not cause the car to run so lean that it dies out which is what seems to be happening. When I give it gas it does not respond then dies.

my theory is that because I used a ULEV body, and installed a non-ULEV motor, that the computer is not able to run the motor correctly. I have no diagnostic expertise like checking wiring continuity, etc. I’m mostly a nuts and bolts turner so I am at a loss as to what to do next.

can anyone help!?
thanks

note: the ULEV valve cover is on the NON ULEV motor. The car had the ULEV motor in it.

 

Sounds correct as a guess. The non-ULEV should have a different intake and exhaust manifold (it's less restrictive than the ULEV) and uses a different ECU, so it makes sense you could be generating errors. I think the O2 sensor is also different.

I think you can solve this by switching over to a non-ULEV ECU, replace the O2 sensor withe the non-ULEV O2, and put the non-ULEV intake and exhaust manifold on.

 

Everything external that was on the A4 needs to go onto the A1 engine long block.
Do not use the A1 intake or exhaust manifold, use the A4s.
Don't try to rewire or modify anything, just use all the A4 bits on the A1 long block.

 

A4 is ULEV?
so put the intake and exhaust from ULEV on, and it should be ok? I think I junked the exhaust, but I will check this afternoon.

I know there is an extra sensor on this head that the ULEV wire harness doesn’t have a connector for, but do you think there may be any significant differences in the cylinder head that would make me need to swap it? I have the ULEV head still.

 

i almost tried swapping the ecu, as this is all I need to complete the setup you are describing. The one problem I saw was the wiring harness didn’t have a wire for the sensor on the head by the distributor... and I can run a wire and buy a connector if that’s all that’s needed, but I’m hoping I have the exhaust manifold still. I’m not sure what other differences there would be between the body / tranny or whatever and I had a problem trying a swap between different cars before that left me with a permanent CEL for that car (r.i.p.) because the body and head or intake and ecu were not compatible. I hope I don’t have to try rewiring again.

 

My understanding is what achieved the ULEV was the constrained intake and exhaust, along with the special O2 in the exhaust, I presume it's more sensitive and the computer knows how to take advantage it better than the non-ULEV.

Did the new engine come with the wiring so you can compare a few things? I think you are close.

 

I may have saved the wire harness in a box somewhere. I’m working right now on swapping the intake but I am now second guessing which one is which. I found the idle air control sensor part numbers are different. Same brand but one is MX136800-1142 while the other is 136800-1141. I cannot find anyone to tell me which goes on the ULEV car... my guess would be the MX one but does anyone know for certain?

 

A1 is ULEV, A4 is SULEV.
Yes. The long blocks are similar enough you can interchange them. There is only a 2HP(peak) difference between the A1 and A4 and that is most likely in the exhaust manifold. the PCM in the A4 is 'smarter'. location of the A/F sensor is critical as the PCM monitors time frame and will adjust fueling as per required.
That is the temp gauge sensor for use on 98-00 cars, these cars and earlier use a divorced temp gauge and sensor wiring. With 01-02 cars the temp gauge gets information directly from the PCM.
That little sensor is not needed/used on 01/02 cars.

 

Ok now I’m confused more lol. I thought the California emissions is ULEV... so what’s SULEV? Only one of the engines said ULEV... 😅

 

STATUS UPDATE:
I got the California intake and exhaust manifolds and 02 sensor installed all to match the Cali body and computer.
and it drives!...but...

still like runs like crap. Hardly any acceleration, slow to switch gear. Didn’t take it past second gear or the first stop sign yet...
no more CEL so far....

checked hoses, liquids, wires and connectors... pulled off the timing cover and checked the timing. How bad would it run if the gear on the left side of the balance belt is just a single tooth off perfect alignment with the timing mark?

not sure what else to check...

(Side note: need a battery for it now :/. Anyone know a cheap place for batteries that DONT suck? i swapped the battery from my current work horse to it and that let me work on it atleast.)

btw thank you guys for the help so far I was really uncertain of what to do but I love to learn and appreciate it so much!

 

No CEL is a good sign.

If you put a scanner on it, how are the O2 readings. It could be some of the learning as the car has been restarted. I would normally clear the ECU memory so it's a fresh start to learning the car.

Does it go into closed loop after warmup?

The gear switching has it's own set of things to check, such as the solenoids, fluid level. etc.

Being off by a tooth is an issue, it's either too advanced or retarded now. You want to fix it.

You are making progress, good job!

 

A1 has a ULEV rating. A4 got the green 'ULEV' valve cover but is an SULEV before the designation was official.
It has to deal with emissions, don't get too worried about it. For you the A1 and A4 long blocks are interchangeable.

Recheck all your connections. Make sure your grounds are accounted for and properly bolted, clean and tight.

Balance shaft wouldn't affect engine performance. But it would vibrate.
Electrical power is critical, if the battery is weak or bad connections the car will run rough or run out of power.
Have you done a compression check on your 'new' engine?

What was the reason for replacing the old A4 engine? Loss of compression?

 

rod broke. Was jammed in between the crankshaft and motor and locked the thing up. Couldn’t turn it at all with a breaker and a 5 foot pipe. Tried drilling it out before I realized I could just hammer that lobe in the right direction. My guess is no oil. Fractured the bore holes. Block no good.

I got the motor from a mechanic friend that I trust whom said it ran fine when he got the car. The tranny on it was shot. The head was redone on it I’m assuming because it looks like new almost with new intake and exhaust gaskets.

right the battery being dead is why I put in the one from the car I drove to work on it. Same model and year car.

I’ll do a compression check and adjust the balance shaft today as well as check the fluids and connections again. Every one of them.

 

here are the readings for the 02 sensors at startup and a couple minutes after. Should I let it run for a while to reach operating temperature?



1

 

more readings after warmup





not sure how to interpret them

 

Hmmm....
You can see how the O2 when cold is not doing much, and the car is in open loop anyway so it doesn't matter. That second O2 (sensor 2) you can see does nothing at first while cold and takes a little time to warm up.

But once warmed up, I would have expected the voltage to get closer to .45. But, maybe because it's at idle in most of the shots, it stays on the really lean side. When you stepped on the pedal, you can see the voltage headed in the right direction (.3, still lean if you were driving, but better).

Can you record while driving? And yes, you wanted it fully warmed up and in closed loop or the readings (I think) are not very useful except to see that they are there.

 

ok I put her on the road for additional readings. The idle speed is low, perhaps I need to increase it? Is that a symptom of the system running lean?
also I found an exhaust leak after the second 02 sensor. Now I know why it’s so loud, but will that have much effect on engine operation? From what I recall holes in the Exhaust after the catalytic converters is just free aftermarket noise.

 

I would agree for the most part. Although a hole might excavate more exhaust or change backpressure, I don't think it would affect too too much, although it's possible. I could be reading this wrong, but your in-front sensor 1 seems to be pretty good, still seems a little lean to me, but pretty good. the second one seems really lazy or on the outs.

Idle and leanness should not be the case. You can idle fat or lean, no matter the RPM.

Are you able to get injector readings? I'm just thinking around the issue, maybe an injector is a little clogged and not delivering the fuel needed.

You might laugh at this since it's more of a broad stroke approach, but have you run cleaner through the system? Like Seafoam into the intake to clean carbon, injectors, etc?

When you switched over, did the EGR look ok? Perhaps a quick cleaning of that (or like I said, try the seafoam first through the whole thing).

Double check there are no vacuum leaks (hoses with cracks since I presume you would notice a hose not connected at this point).

 

actually i had been considering the fact that the gasoline might be old. The car hasn’t run in a while bc the “mechanic” I bought it from couldn’t figure out what was wrong with the motor... so maybe old gas could cause this?

 

old gas, water in the gas line, it's possible. Following that thought, check the fuel filter. Also test the fuel pressue while driving to see if it's dropping. When I do that, I borrow a fuel pressue tester from the parts store, connect it and tape it to the windshield so I can see it while driving around, or have an assistant watch to see if it drops oddly while accelerating.

 

Hey did you ever figure out the temp gauge wiring? My buddy just did the same swap but used the F23A out of his accord that he had swapped in it a year ago. He put the motor in a late 2000 model accord coupe 5 speed but the coupe had a F23A4 in it with the same harness as you were working with. With no temp gauge comes no vtec also. I’ve read a few forums where they go from the yellow/green wire on the sensor located on the head then to the ecu then the pin on the temp gauge behind the dash. Any words back would be greatly appreciated. Thank you much.

 

If putting a 98-00 engine into a 01/02 Accord, you only need the one thermo sensor for the PCM and gauges. Use the original sensor from the car/original engine, not the sensor from the donor engine.

 

98 and 99 F23's had the single pin thermosensor in addition to the ECT. The 00-02 models have a bolt in place of that sensor and pull all thermal info from the ECT

 

So I actually ended up finding out that the reason it was running so poorly is that the free motor I got for it
and installed was no good.
guess I should learn how to check that before installing next time Bc I just recently put a different motor into
the same body and now it won’t even start up.
I know this thread is pretty old so I did start a new one but I’m hoping the gear heads will respond favorably
to Atleast one of them.

I have this motor I bought from a used supplier but unfortunately I feel like I’m either doing the compression
test incorrectly or the motor is no good.

I am not sure but think maybe the low battery has something to do with it but I hooked up a good one with jumper
cables to it and tried the compression test but not a single cylinder is compressing very quickly or completely.
could this just be a low battery issue?