Hey,

So I have an ebay journal t3/t4 that was on my EG. Smoked a bit on the EG, not terrible but a bit, I always attributed this to the drain line not being as straight as it could be.

On my Teg now, I just got the turbo on and haven't put the charge pipes on yet, I did a bit of cruising today, barely going above 4k RPM and noticed a fair bit of oil coming out of the compressor. I didn't see much/any coming out of the exhaust side, I did before when the line was kinked but not now.

My drain line is -10 and is a pretty straight run to the top of the oil pan. I couldn't get the oil pan fitting any higher.

Any suggestions other than increasing the drain line size? The actual line between the fittings is literally only like 2 inches even, it's pretty short run.. I'll go take pics.

 

did you install a oil restrictor on the oil feed line to the turbo? Too much oil pressure will cause this, it could also just be a bad seal

 

Just went out, warmed it up, rev'd it to 80+psi oil pressure and held it for a bit to take some pics.. Seemed like it was putting out less and less though. I wonder if I'm being paranoid and there's still just a bit left in it that needs to work it's way out.

I put a piece of clean paper in front of the turbo elbow (there's a 90 silicone coming right off the turbo) and held it at like 4000rpm for 30 sec and didn't see a single droplet or spittle or anything on the paper but there was a tiny bit in the elbow when I checked. Cleaned out the elbow, did it again and less. Then pulled the elbow off and put the paper on the turbo and saw nothing. Then cleaned and put the elbow back on and rev'd it a little harder including some rev limit which spools it a bit more (if I go above 40% throttle under 18km/h it locks at whatever rpm I cross that threshold at - so it was limiting at about 4k rpm) and got a few more drops.

Phone is charging but I'll post pics in a sec.

Feed line is a -3 from a sandwich plate. My oil pressure gauge shows about 80 psi max at higher RPMs although when revving up it does bounce to 90-100 then back down to 80, this gauge has always done that, seems like just pressure build up.

 

I installed a restrictor before in my EG. It plugged up and destroyed my turbo.

Again, this is a journal bearing turbo not a ball bearing. Most people say there's no such thing as too much pressure for a journal bearing turbo so long as your drain line is fine.

I will say that before the restrictor plugged in the EG, it was working decently with no oil or smoke.

From TurbosByTm:

From Precision Turbo:

I would likely use a turbosmart oil pressure regulator before trying a pinhole restrictor again, but those are designed for ball bearing turbos I believe, puts out 40psi constant, which is still probably enough for a journal bearing I'd think. I don't know, I guess if the restrictor was big enough to not get clogged, but honestly the hole on the -3 fitting isn't even that big.

I should note that my crankcase is vented (Endyn can on both rear block fittings and valve cover breather) although again I'm not pressurizing the intake yet.

That might sum it up a bit though.

 

Would anyone really agree with that? Most of what I've found is that basically journal bearing turbos should really not need a restrictor if the drain is sufficient and as an absolute last resort otherwise, but they're likely referring to 'real' turbos not ebay trash like what I have.

 

Would love for some of the Turbo Gods around here to chime in, Shodan? wantboost?

I might try the turbosmart piece but I also worry that maybe 40psi isn't quite enough? Last thing I want to do is cook a turbo shaft, again. Put in a restrictor before and it took care of my oil problems beautifully, until the turbo started making noises a few months later and the shaft snapped in half. I still have the turbine wheel from that....

I mean I'm only using -3 too, a lot of JB turbos call for -4 or even -6 if they're big.

 

My jurnal bearing turbo called for a restrictor, most I’ve seen do. High oil pressure can blow out a seal if the turbo required a restrictor

 

I should mention I also double checked the downpipe and didn't see any fresh oil.


This is what happened the last time I ran a restrictor, it got plugged.

Oil droplets after warming up and running at 4k rpm for 30 to 45 sec

Drain line

 

I wouldn't disagree but most manufacturers say a restrictor is absolute last resort. Another said there should never be a reason if your drain line is sufficient.

what size would you recommend then? Or do you think 40psi is sufficient? The turbosmart piece looks nice.

The one I had before was probably less than 0.5mm, was super tiny but the only "turbo oil restrictor" my local place carried (whom also carries precision jb and bb)

 

I do worry about that, although the same guy from the last quote also said:

So maybe something like 2mm would be fine.. I suppose it's worth a shot. Can throw my gauge on the line and see what it does.. Definitely easier than taking off my oil pan and putting in a -12 and redoing my whole drain line and getting new fittings for the hose, hose, and fitting for the turbo..

I might see if I can drill out the drain fitting on the turbo at all though, but just getting my drain line on is a bitch since it's so damn short there's no flex.

 

Just looked at my -3 feed adapter and it looks pretty restrictive as is? I doubt that opening is more than 2.5mm.. I'll post pic in sec

 

Although this 0.065" fitting does look a bit smaller:

 

I wouldn't have thought so until reading this page and I'm still not sure but..

https://www.melett.com/technical/why...res/oil-leaks/

The turbo isn't showing anything on the exhaust side that I can see and the compressor side isn't connected to anything thus it's not pressurizing at all. Maybe a few PSI of pressure on the compressor side of the oil ring will negate what's coming through..?

I've still always felt like our engines maybe put out a tiny bit too much oil for these turbos though..but I know of people running similar turbos with no restrictor and no issues.

 

This thread is full of WTF... Pinhole restrictor? Those are good for paperweights only and shouldn't be used anywhere near, on, or around a turbo. Journal bearings DO require a restrictor. You *MIGHT* get lucky enough to skip the restrictor if you're using a smaller feed line, (-3AN) but, and I stress BUT, you still take a risk of blowing a seal.. A PROPER restrictor should be used, period. Quoting any advice on JB turbo care from PTE is also like taking financial advice from a poor man; there's some **** you just DON'T do. Lol! Precision journal bearings are OVERWHELMINGLY notorious for blowing oil seals despite ANY technical advice given from their wrench monkeys. I'm not gonna be *THAT* guy and say it's buggered just because Ebay turbo, because I have seen some that lasted, but I've also seen some fail miserably.
Assuming you're still reading this post by this point, it looks like your AN fitting on the feed has a much larger opening than the .065 usually used/recommended for JB. I'm running a .065 restrictor on my garrett JB and have ZERO oiling issues after a year and 3400 miles of some moderate to hard running, 3-5 times a week. Hell, Ebay turbos are cheap and practically disposable, 1-use items anyways. Get another one and feed it properly and see what happens.

 

I admit when I got the pinhole restrictor I was still a bit noob with turbo. I actually thought it looked a little small but it was the only "turbo restrictor" I could get locally. Like I said, it worked "perfectly" until it clogged; though I can't verify if it was getting enough flow for proper cooling, probably not, but once it plugged, yeah..you can see the result in the picture. Ordered a new ebay turbo once that happened.

As for a paper weight, the pinhole restrictor probably weighed less than most sheets of paper, so I don't understand how it could work decently as a paper weight even.

As far as Precision's advice (copy/pasted from their website), I've never had a Precision turbo but it seemed like they were a pretty decent manufacturer, maybe I'm wrong.

This ebay turbo is still what I would call new, it has less than 2000km on it. I'll try going to .065 or running the turbosmart piece. Probably the 0.065 first because it's cheaper but the TS gives 40 psi which may be enough and is nicely blingy. I doubt it'll need replacement but if it does, you're right, they're disposable. Though if I replace it I might spend a bit more $ and get something decent. From what you said, I guess I should avoid Precision..? lol

But essentially the advice I can find from almost anyone is that your drain line should be bigger. Lots of people say -10 isn't even close to enough, though a lot of those people are saying -4 feed.

0.065 isn't much larger than the hole on a -3 fitting but maybe it's enough, I'm not really getting a lot of oil and again only on the compressor side.

But it's definitely worth a shot, so I'll try and find one local, failing that I'll order from ATP or something, they have a 0.065" turbo feed adapter.

 

I just think it's odd that 90% of anything I can find about oil pressure for journal turbos says that if you're pushing oil you need a bigger drain; that the OEM drains on these style turbos are much larger than -10 even.

And I don't argue the fact that a bigger drain line might help; but just installing my drain line was a PITA because of the lack of flex due to the lack of length so I'm more inclined to try a 0.065" restrictor, less work, cheaper and even if I did go with a bigger drain line and it worked fine - I would think that solution would be directing more oil away from my engine than a restrictor/smaller drain line would.

So I guess I fall into (and maybe all of us Honda guys with high oil pressure) that small percentage that needs one. I am willing to bet if I went with a bigger drain line that it would probably be fine, but again that's more work and money than a restrictor.

Thanks for the feedback guys. These ebay turbos should come with one - I can't imagine how many get sent back due to "smoking" because of it..including the part could save a lot of returns possibly = more profit..? shrug..

So if Precision isn't worth looking at.. who is? Garrett? BW?

 

Borg has some very popular turbos used on Honda builds. Precison BALL BEARING is the way to go if you want them, Garrett if you want a fair balance of reliability and performance.
As for the JB and oiling... Restrictors aren't **technically** necessary for some applications. They are recommended for those that have fairly high operating oil pressure though.. Honda would fall directly into that category. As for your drain; you really do not need anything larger than -10AN. It should also be at a slight downward angle from turbo to drain bung; not necessarily "straight". Hopefully this helps clear up some confusion. Lol!

 

by straight I meant angled (shortest distance between two points is a straight line) I did post pic of my line

 

I see it now. Guess I missed it yesterday. The bung at the pan is not pictured; from the looks here, the angle is fantastic.. Probably too much so.. Lol! Looks like it goes down pretty far on the pan. *shrug* Can you get a shot of where it's located on the oil pan?

 

I'll need to make a small audio podcast for any further explanation. This is full of a lot of misconceptions and BS.

 

It's located as high up as possible on the pan, literally couldn't go any higher and as far as left/right goes, it's in line with the turbo drain.

 

I would absolutely love that or any explanation you can give, I was really hoping you'd chime in because of your experience. Unfortunately when it comes to FI, the internet is full of bullshit even seemingly spewed by the manufacturers of products.

Please -- help us dispel of the bullshit! I'd love to learn whatever I can from you.

For a simple answer; restrictor or bigger drain? or something else? It doesn't seem like a huge amount of oil, but enough to concern me (the last thing I want is oil in my intake charge) and I'm only seeing it on the compressor side (though it could be burning off) and again at the moment the charge pipes are off.

 

As I do this audio/vid, here's a troubleshooting chart to look at to look at other diagnostic determinations. it may not be one issue in setup, but possibly several.

Turbocharger troubleshooting chart

 

Thanks for that, looking forward to what you come up with; I've noticed the thread title has changed, what is meant by PTE? If it means Precision Turbo, while I quoted them I stated I had an eBay journal bearing turbo in the OP.

As far as "Excessive Oil - Compressor" goes, according to the PDF:
Dirty Air Cleaner - Don't have one, can't fit one, will be putting on a mesh screen
Plugged Crankcase Breather - stock breather plugged, two fittings on back of block to vented endyn can, valve cover fitting vented
Collapsed or restricted air pipe to turbo - no intake piping, again, none would fit
Restricted/Damaged Boost Tube - assuming this means charge piping, again, I have no charge pipes on at the moment
Foreign Object b/w Air Cleaner & Turbo - not applicable
Turbo Flange Clamp or Loose Bolt - CHRA tight, exhaust inlet flange tight
Inlet Manifold Cracked / Loose Gaskets/Hoses - Well, I don't have the charge pipes on; I did ask if this could contribute to the issue however
Restricted Oil Feed Line - -3AN, no restrictor
Turbo Seal Leakage - Turbo probably has <2000km on it, still ebay turbo though, my drain setup on the EG could've been better and I did get a bit of oil from that I believe.
Worn Journal Bearing - see above
Excess Dirt Buildup on Comp Housing - it's pretty clean but I can take it off and make sure.
Excess Engine Idle - 850rpm
Oil Filter Plugged - unlikely
Boost Control * - brand new TS wastegate, turbo not making boost yet though due to charge pipes being off.

Restricted Oil Drain isn't listed for oil in compressor, but again it's -10 and a nice straight sweep to the pan.

 

I still stand that your not running a restrictor has killed an already questionable turbo. Get another one, get a proper .065 restrictor for journal bearing, call it a day.

While Shodan has put his soul into a list of *possible* issues, the vast majority are more possible than probable.