What’s up Honda Tech Family!

So im at the final stages of putting together my high compression B20v & have come at a cross roads with the cam options. Here’s my build:

- B20b block
- Nippon 84mm CTR (over sized B16b) pistons
- Scat Forged Rods w/upgraded ARP rod bolts
- King Race Bearings (rods, mains & thrust)
- Decked block

- B16 PR3-4 Head w/competition port & polish
- 5 angle comp valve job
- Supertech valve springs & steel retainers
- Supertech valve guides & keepers
- Ferrea 5000 Series flat top valves
- Cut, ported/polished & rewelded ITR manifold
- 70mm SpeedFactory TB
- Thermal gaskets everywhere
- Hondata S300 v3’s
- Hondata Coil-on-plug ignition kit

**YES, I WILL BE RUNNING E85 FUEL**

So my question is, what cam can I go with? Ideally, I would want to go with the ITR cams I currently already have.

As per the breakdown sheet provided with the pistons I purchased, I should be anywhere from 13.5:1 - 14:1 compression. With the help of e85, the detonation shouldn't be a huge concern but it’s still in the back of my mind lol

SO! ITR cams? Or Skunk2 Pro2’s?

 

Big compression works with big cams... ITR cams are a limiting factor in your build.

 

Yep. Pro 2a, GSC N2, Web camsshafts. Those are the only companies I would deal with at that kind of compression.

 

If you haven't already purchased the pistons I'd highly recommend spending the extra cash to get a good set of forged pistons instead of the cast Nippon. You're going all-out in other areas of the build, it's silly to cheap out on the pistons - If you can afford a port & polish on the head, you can afford forged pistons. Recommend looking at Supertech, Wiseco, or CP.

Agreed with Shodan that Skunk2 Pro2 or GSC N2 would be good off the shelf options. At 13.5:1 I'd even consider going with Pro 3's, just make sure you get everything degreed properly and check your P2V clearance when the engine is assembled.

Would also recommend going with a 74mm throttle body and Ultra Street intake if those parts haven't already been purchased. Between the cams, compression, and displacement, you'll have more than enough engine airflow to make use of the larger intake path.

 

the header will definitely need to be an SMSP or similar design and runner diameter.

No way I'd run a cast piston like this for a high comp setup.

 

Yea, I’m really starting to pull towards s2 Pro 2’s.

Also, I’m using these cast pistons meanwhile. They’ll do the job. It’s not like I’ll be shooting nitrous through this motor. Once the car is put together I’ll be putting together a sleeved b18 block bored to 2.0 on the side to run a big nitrous shot with the same scat rods.

For now cast will last! Lmao

 

Lol, I see your point. But I’m building a sleeved b18 bored to 2.0 on the side to run nitrous. I think I won’t have a problem with the cast pistons though. I highly thought they’ll crack! 😳

 

As per the headers, I’ll be running the PLM Big tube 4-1 headers.

 

Well, best of luck to you, then. I guess we'll stop with the suggestions, then.

 

Why? All I’m saying is that cast will work with no problem. Forged at better & preferred of course, but cast will also work.

No need to get defensive lol.

 

Apparently the pistons are a stronger material outside of just cast. It’s Hypereutectic pistons

 

And you've researched the properties of these materials / processes and compared them to forged.

C'mon player, don't just name materials without giving proper reasoning or information behind it. That leads to the road to ruin.

 

I think you’re taking these cast/Hypereutectic pistons a bit too serious my guy lmao OF COURSE forged piston are better. I’ve ran them on previous builds before. Traum forged pistons to be exact but ALL IM SAYING is that these Hypereutectic pistons WILL WORK & put down the NA all motor power that I want without them cracking or shattering into pieces. If they can hold 300+whp under boost, I highly doubt an all motor set up at 14:1 compression making 230-250whp will break them. I’m all for forged piston, but these will work as well. No need for your extra curricular words & comments. Just shows you’re ignorant to anything outside of forged pistons. People have budgets bud. Have a good one! Lmao

 

I'm not defensive or taking this too serious at all, truly. You're just stating a pattern of argument that we've all heard on here before....

It's just, you're kinda asking for some feedback and we're giving it... At the same time you have an answer for the very validation you seek, so I was kinda like.. "so... whatchu need us for, then?...

Tell you what.. Educate us a bit with the term Hypereutectic. For those of us who don't know. That's why I'm saying elaborate on your reasoning instead of just material name dropping. Should I say that my Unobtanium forged rods would do better than the billet aluminum? I could, but then people would want to know more about what that is, and not just the sales-pitch advert that comes up on a website.

It's your car.. It's just.. you have an answer for everything, so we don't need to really say anything anymore, right? You tell us, player..

 

Negative. You went off course with my initial question. Which was, what CAMS would be good for my build. Then, you put your 2 cents on my pistons lol on top of your cam recommendation.

So no, I don’t have an answer for everything. I’m simply just STATING as to why these pistons will work & wont have to purchase forged pistons. You’re just hanging on by a thread about these Hypereutectic pistons & why I shouldn’t run them but still am lmao. Also I’m sure you can do a quick google search as to what Hypereutectic is.

I’ll save you the search bud, it’s simply an alloy they add to the piston to help reinforce is. You want more details? The internet is a beautiful thing nowadays. S E A R C H

 

Never mind, man... I'm trying to make this so that it was interesting for the rest of the readers on this particular forum to check out (this is a tech forum after all), and not just have people Google searching everything after a new name drop. You just basically made something that had the potential to become something very interesting that could be used as a new topic of point in your thread, and instead went back to the normal trend of today's users and decided to just tell people to search. (Which kinda tells me that you don't really know what it is either.).. Boring

*sigh*. And people wonder why these forums are dying a terrible slow death.

Best of luck, sir..

 

Dude, I’ve seen you on other forums also talking **** comparing what somebody should do instead of what they actually want to do. One thing is to give an opinion another thing is forcing one on an individual. Which is what you are doing. If I don’t want to run forged pistons, I don’t have to. You’re just trying to talk down on the Pistons that I want to run and I’m just not allowing it. I’m sorry… Doesn’t equate to a topic where it can help somebody in the future. You just trying to get your point across and it makes no sense. Good day to you lol.

 

So, since you've decided to go there, let's the get the record straight, shall we? On this topic I have nothing but time for you.

Yes, you're right, and you've figured my master plan here on H-T for the last 15 years.. I have the powers of a Jedi to force people what they're planning to do and how they can do it. I not only have that ability, but I have the ability to purchase components for other people so that everyone is exactly the same, doing MY bidding. Muhahahaha!!

What you call "talking ****" I call having a conversation into revealing what they are actually thinking about what they do before they do it. If it means creating a level of questioning in which people have to reflect on their answers (as I did with you), My opinion is just that; my opinion based upon my particular experiences in both the FI & NA worlds. Is it my fault that my percentage of guidance is better than average? Or is that because I had the ability to force someone over the internet to invest in thousands of dollars into something that I simply stated?

If I'm blunt, it's only because I have become so due to the fact that several individuals like yourself take what I say and immediately form a defensive posture, instead of keeping an open mind to some classic devil's advocate. My response is not about whether or not to use forged pistons or cast, but about explaining your reasoning. I do that all of the time to others to keep this forum objective in its "tech". People have done it to me for years on this forum, and I've survived just fine without resorting to finger-pointing, "rants", and "diatribes". So, you'll be fine. Please relax.

I can't help what other people think of me. I can only give an objective opinion based upon what myself and others in my position have. If that means that I corner people into explaining themselves without giving some reasoning behind their decision, then, well, they can answer it, or they don't. It's only the internet, not life. So, I keep calm, and carry on.

Hehe my friend, you are free to do whatever you wish. I believe you think that I'm being judgemental towards you personally because you didn't want to invest in forged pistons over Cast ones for your goals.. On the contrary, I'm trying to get you to explain your efforts as to why Hypereutectic coatings on cast pistons is important, so that others who look at this thread understand Hypereutectic coating properties works. I don't need to search it, because I'm not the one using it.

But you don't get to just use a buzzword to explain your reasoning behind a choice, get cornered by that choice by another party, and call "foul" because you can't explain it yourself either by choice or by lack of knowledge yourself. All I asked was that you educate us a bit with the term Hypereutectic. You seem confident in its properties, I simply ask (as my point) what it was specifically that sold you on those properties. You brought the term up to attempt to validate your answer to the question, not me.

I question hard. If it comes across as "talking ****", well.... what can I tell ya.

Hopefully you'll read the entire response and not go with a typical TL;DR response... It would be a shame if you did, as I took the time analyze your response.

 

Hypereutectic alloy is a change in the casting material. Alloy is defined as a combination of different metals and materials combined together in a recipe to target specific abilities or attributes. In this case, the difference between a conventional cast alloy piston and a hypereutectic cast alloy piston is an increase in silicon content. This does NOT make the piston stronger. In fact, it becomes more brittle than a conventional cast alloy and is more susceptible to damage caused by detonation or pre-ignition. The advantage of the Hypereutectic cast alloy piston is very limited material growth/swell when heated, and thus, can be installed safely with very tight piston-to-cylinder-wall clearances... reducing oil consumption and making the engine quieter. Reducing the silicon content in an alloy piston makes it stronger and less brittle... but also requires greater piston-to-cylinder-wall clearance so that the piston can grow in size as it heats up without reaching the point where it seizes inside the blocks bores.

 

Ah... JRCivic1.. The voice of reason coming through with some tech about the subject. Thanks for coming through with that vs the back-&-forth. Kudos & Big Ups.....


Thanks for understanding my point. I guess TL;DR still exists on the tech forums.

 

Exactly like JRCivic said. hypereutectic alloys it is made for tighter clearances i.e. emission friendly economy engines, there is not any advantages for performance use.

 

I do understand the bickerment, do it right once, or several times wrong. Howvever, the internet thug was right in a way. It really just depends on how the engine is going to be used. Forged is always the better way but can be overkill in some situations in my opinion

300+whp has been made in N/A fashion, on stock bottom end with H and K series OEM cast pistons. I've seen 230-240 on stock bottom end B series. I could absolutely care less if your internet hp calculator says that's impossible. This was also before the Nitro mixtures. You will not even believe what a stock bottom end can make with 30% nitro.

Just use common sense. If you want it to last and its going to be in any kind of endurance type racing, go with a forged piston. However, if this is an all motor weekend warrior or simple budget (yes, that is budget parts list to me) drag build, cast is fine. Whatever the silicon content may be.

 

I just wanted to know about the alloy and his reasoning behind the choices. I didn't give a damn about the power number, ya know?

 

I don't remember placing any part of my post in Bold... did you "enhance" my post sir ? Either way, I am happy (and honored) to help all members here mechanically and educationally.

 

Yes, I did, but only to put emphasis on your point specifically, so as not to be misinterpreted in any way. I don't like requoting text a lot (causes confusion for some of us that scroll down quickly), and I felt it was important for the OP to understand that the issue that was created was that he used a term and didn't feel it was necessary to define that term, where as you did, which is awesome. I didn't know anything about that process, nor possibly did many people. So, the portions set in bold was to promote your contribution to the definition and characteristics. Nothing more. If you have any issues with it, please let me know, I'll gladly revert it back to its original un-bolded form. I mean no disrespect or intrusion.

Thank you again, for the definition and clarification. Much obliged.