As I mentioned in other threads, I'll be endurance racing my CRX. Initially in champ car and eventually shooting for the 25 hours of thunderhill, meaning I'll be going for NASA st4 rules. This puts my average power output at 180 (probably 195/200 ish peak), delivered via a crv k24. I'm also estimating 1900 lbs fully loaded race weight. Since I'll need this thing to last 25 hours straight, I've been debating a brake setup. It was advised to me to stay away from the dpha and dynalite wilwood setups as the calipers themselves are a bit flexy for pure Motorsports use. A gentleman I spoke to Tracks his EF Civic and feels his wilwood 11.75 in rotors are sufficient for his higher power civic, in terms of heat capacity/shedding capability. That being said, I don't want too much rotor but I definitely want a solid caliper. The AP setup is 2300 ish and I KNOW will deliver. Rotors are way bigger than the wilwood dynapro setup at 32mm thick and like 12.2 inches. BUT I found a screaming deal on a used dynapro setup for 800 with 2x set of rotors and pads.

I guess my question is, anyone use the dynapro setup and feel the caliper can deliver and is easy peasy to modulate? I've run brembos on other vehicles that are probably in the same league as wilwoods, but I've never driven on AP calipers so I don't know what I'm missing. I hear they're the **** though.


Stuffing these in some 15x9's

 

I have some experience on the Wilwood forged dynalite kit that might be helpful (https://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Br...c&option=HB+SI). The calipers themselves have been great, no issues whatsoever after a season of DE at 250+whp at 2480lbs. I recommend upgrading the rotors, obviously you don't want the cross-drilled princess rotors. I went with the GT-36 rotors https://www.wilwood.com/Rotors/Rotor...emno=160-12291 and a set of Honed air guides to keep things cool. I have probably 10-20/25 minute sessions on these new rotors with a BP-30 pad, no cracks and minimal wear.. I am very pleased with the threshold modulation and performance overall, on a 225 200tw I can use about 50% pedal pressure and they will lock, so tons of room for more tire on the car. For the price they work very well. You may be hard pressed to fit a 12.2 inch rotor on a 15 in wheel but I think there is an 11.75 (either wilwood or fastbrakes) that should fit and work fine at 1900 pounds. With proper cooling, I don't see why they wouldn't last.

 

Why spend all that money?
A simple mini 11 inch rotor swap with Acura Legend calipers will do the trick for much less.
Don't over engineer it.
I run this with 15x6 and 15x7 wheels and nothing touches or rubs. Rota Circuit 8 and Slip Stream wheels.
How does it stop.... like the hand of god! Pads Hawk DTC-60's
My Car weight is slightly above 2250

Questions are... do you have 92-95 ex knuckles on the crx? this I'm told is a must for this swap.

 

We run an EG hatch in Lucky Dog with a B20vtec, 15x8 wheels with 225/45-15 RS4 tires. We use the Wilwood DPHA calipers ($400 for the pair) over 10.3" Centric high carbon rotors ($25 each). Our current rotors have 4 weekends (14 to 16 hours each weekend) on them and still going strong. We have settled on Raybestos ST43 pads ($81 per set). Based on wear over a weekend I am confident the pads will last 24 hours but it will require swapping pads inside to outside mid race due to pad taper. We typically swap the pads inside to outside on Saturday night between races and still have ~50% of the friction material at the end of the weekend. This setup does require ducting. Our ducts feed from the front bumper fog light holes and stop a few inches short of the rotor caliper due to packaging issues. Stopping short does provide extra cooling to the outer CV which is an issue if you let them get too hot from the brakes.

We were running an EG coupe with Acura calipers but had issues with rebuilt calipers and the cost of good racing pads for the Acura calipers were over twice the cost of pads for the Wildwoods (far same pads, different backing plates). Cheaper race pads for the Wilwoods paid for the Wilwoods in less than 4 weekends.

We have run the following pads.
EBC Yellow, okay feel but not endurance worthy, lasted ~6 hours.
Porterfield R4-E, terrible feel (felt like wood blocks) but lasted forever.
Hawk DTC-60, super strong initial bite (too strong) made modulation difficult, did not last all weekend, ~12 hours.
Raybestos ST43, good initial bite, easy to modulate, lasts all weekend plus some.

 

i had that mentality until i had an incident north of 100mph with Z-E-R-O pedal thanks to the oem calipers. came home that weekend and bought the stoptech kit, which i now think is pretty much the best offering on the market

wilwood is known for tapering pads, the new stoptech str42 calipers have a bridge brace to stop taper. I run $30 wilwood rotor rings off the back of a dirt car.

 

Lots of stuff in this thread.... Pad taper is bad for endurance. The dyna pro is a different caliper design as I understand from the dpha. I haven't found anyone yet that has ran the pro or the AP kit on a Civic.

It's looking like the 11 inch rotor will definitely be a requirement for endurance racing. Still unsure on 25mm vs 32 or 11.75 vs 12.2.

 

the initial investment in some of the kits is high, but the running costs are lower dont forget. i think my dtc60's are about 100 a set and lasted most of last season. may play with some gloc's this year

 

the stop tech kit, if sprint racing, will pay for itself in about 12 events... just in pad cost savings. I assume that is the same for other kits. also you need to make sure you can get your hands on rebuild kits. Chad will tell you the Spoon/willwood rotor combo is best. from what i have seen, it is... but getting rebuild kits for the spoons (and they will need it yearly) is about $500.

there are two negatives for the ITR/Mini setup... #1 is weight, they are boat anchors ... #2 they suffer from pad knock back if you eat gators. they are cheap ($150sih on rock auto for the calipers, and $40 for a set of rotors). a 3rd negative for you in endurance racing.... i don't think the rotors will last the duration (i'm getting 2.5 events out of a set of rotors in sprint racing with DT60 pads). some cry me a river stuff is I need to run wheel stud rings for the mini rotor to sit properly so i can run spacers...

you are going to want to search out pad selection and easy of getting rotors...

 

I thought with the mini cooper rotors being hubcentric there shouldn't be a need to run the wheel stud rings? Would the fastbrakes redrilled prelude rotors work better?

 

Good point. I'll do some analysis on the dpro vs the ap kit.

I've been running on raybestos st43's exclusively on every car for like 5 years now. As much as i enjoy them, i want to take my braking/turn-in game to the next level and am looking for some pads that are unsurpassed in modulation, yet can last an enduro. Currently doing research into other pads. Can't find anything good on g-lock. It's just a bunch of miata bro's talking about their streetability or how much they don't wear down as quickly as carbotechs. Hardly good data points. I mean, i'm sure they're great, there's just currently no indications on how they compare against other legit track pads. And carbotech, as we all know, is no good comparison since they don't last and are $$$$.

 

they can still shift on the hub... 1320 performance makes some lug shims that should eliminate this... but in an enduro setting (the original post) i wouldnt go with the spacers.

well i dont think DTC60s are the answer... i'm looking to go from DTC60s to ST45s or 35s.

IMHO, track days and 1 year racing... and at least on the ITR/Mini setup... i have to over drive the DTC60s once they get hot... if you under drive them when hot they tend to lock up and if you over drive them cold they lock up (or cold tires and hotter brakes)... I spent 3 years on R comps before racing and I had a flat spotting issue for the first 2-3 events as a racer... either at the start of the race or ratcheting back at the end of a 45 minute race with no one in sight (front or back). i HATE the feel of DTC60s... but they will stop you like woah when you hit them right.

when you look at data, most guys want a 60* or steeper brake line... mine are all 45* lines... i get a lot of crap from people looking at my data... but with DTC60s, according to the guys looking at my video and data, i'm outbraking most of my competitors (who are on the expensive brakes)... but i still have room for improvement lol

 

Haha I bet you sh** your pants! Thank goodness there was no contact! What exactly failed though? That's actually terrifying. If something like that happened almost anywhere at Sonoma, that would be a trip to the ER.

 

Ive seen such things as you experienced before. Glad you are ok for sure!
That was a scary ride to say the least.
I have to ask you this though.
Did you have a 2lb residual brake valve installed? If not that's why you experienced the pucker factor X10.
I was warned about the knock back before I went this route, and this small inexpensive piece has never failed me.

Now as far as the cost of doing business... Rotors are cheap. If you buy the Vatozone lifetime warranty rotors you just take them back and get a new set free when they are toast. Haven't spent money on rotors in 3 seasons. Average maybe 3 sets a season.
They do stand by their warranty.... just a fyi.
Pads.. its all preference.
You then have to ask yourself. Whats my budget, whats safe.
Yes I have seen a car do exactly that at Sonoma entering turn 7 lucky for him there is some run off there.

 

What is this 2lb residual thingamajigger you speak of?

 

im assuming hes referring to an anti knockback spring, but thats not something ive ever seen/heard of being used on an oem slide caliper. on something like the stoptechs it would sit inside the piston and push against the back of the pad keeping it up against the rotor so there is no delayed engagement.

to be honest i never found a definitive cause, everything checked out. it wasnt even a late brake as the other guy got on the brakes early to try and tuck in and get a run, pedal just went fully to the floor. i wasnt willing to risk it so i bought the stoptech kit and a new master and called it a day.

 

It's one of these.... made by willwood. There are other brands out there but the prices are all about the same. Between 18-25.00
https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Wilwo...aign=CSEGOOGLE

The calipers I bought when i made the swap were also made by stoptech, they were just OEM replacements.

 

You just gotta do a little left foot tappy tap before going into the brake zone.

And remember to tell your new drivers to do the same.

 

I've heard of others who haven't done the residual valve install doing exactly this.

 

interesting, never knew there was a hydro solution

i do in 99% of corners, including that video (watch my left knee at about the 32 second mark)....it was there and then it wasnt

 

Ahh, okay, I thought he lost all braking ability for x number of seconds. This knockback thing actually happened to me years ago going into turn four at Sonoma, but my instinct was to keep tapping the pedal and the brakes came back, but not before I pooed myself a little.

 

Eventually we all have pooooed a little from those ohh **** moments

 

my incident was not knock back, truthfully i think a seal in the master was iffy/failed as there was signs of fluid in the booster. if it was knock back i would have been able to get the pedal back.

i experienced knock back although with an untraditional cause which led to me hitting the wall this year. turns out if a hub is pressed in crooked it will wobble and push the pads back and make you spin in a straight line (i paid a shop to do the pressing too)

 

Whats the part number on the Raybestos Pads? Currently i am running Hawks DTC-60s as they sell a 0.490 thick pad. All i can find from Raybestos in the ST43 is a 0.600 thick pad. I am running the Wilwood DPHA calipers on Intergra Spindles. So all i cant fit is the 0.600.

 

I think the part number is R303.12-ST43

Do a google search for "wilwood 7812 raybestos st43"
I buy from topbrakes.com for $81 a set and get the pads in a box sent from Porterfield.

Wilwood's backing plate is 78XX, the 12 above being the 12mm thickness.
The Raybestos backing plate number is R303.12. The .12 denotes the 12mm thick pad.

 

I just changed out the Wilwood BP-30s for the Hawk DTC-60 and the Hawks have waaay to much initial bite and seem hard to modulate. These things lock way to easy without the tires 100% up to temp. I am not sure how long they will last... they dust out like crazy. Both sides of the car look like someone dusted for fingerprints. They might be a good pad for huge rubber used in Time Attack flyers..? I need to go back to the BP-30s or try the ST43s that everyone has been raving about. The BP-30s are a little steep price-wise for a pad but work really well.. I hope the ST43s perform similarly at a better price.